Smoke Bridge Duplicated Alerts

[macburn]

Hello,

 

I recently re-added my Smoke Bridge to my ISY 994i after moving to a new home. Right now, it's connected to a single First Alert smoke alarm. 

 

I created a basic program to send a notification when the bridge sends status to the system (test, smoke, CO, etc.)

 

When using the test function on the smoke alarm, I noticed that I am getting duplicated notifications, a second one approximately 11 or 12 seconds after the first.

 

After reading this post:

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiqw_6E8sPVAhVD7YMKHbvkAIAQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.universal-devices.com%2Ftopic%2F9998-problem-with-smoke-bridge-not-updating-isy%2F&usg=AFQjCNFGei9YzAT0yCZwrvTDQ02GT1Dfpw

 

I did the following:

 

1) Removed the smoke bridge from the dashboard

2) Factory reset the smoke bridge 

3) Updated the ISY to most recent ISY firmware

4) Rebooted the ISY

5) Linked the reset smoke bridge to the ISY again

6) Connected the smoke bridge to the First Alert smoke alarm

 

After all this, I'm STILL getting duplicated notifications from the test function of the smoke alarm, and also when the smoke alarm detects smoke.

 

Smoke alarm is about 15 feet above the smoke bridge on the same wall. I'm not having any other connection problems.

 

Does anyone know how to resolve this duplication?

 

[Techman]

Hello,

 

I recently re-added my Smoke Bridge to my ISY 994i after moving to a new home. Right now, it's connected to a single First Alert smoke alarm. 

 

I created a basic program to send a notification when the bridge sends status to the system (test, smoke, CO, etc.)

 

When using the test function on the smoke alarm, I noticed that I am getting duplicated notifications, a second one approximately 11 or 12 seconds after the first.

 

After reading this post:

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiqw_6E8sPVAhVD7YMKHbvkAIAQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.universal-devices.com%2Ftopic%2F9998-problem-with-smoke-bridge-not-updating-isy%2F&usg=AFQjCNFGei9YzAT0yCZwrvTDQ02GT1Dfpw

 

I did the following:

 

1) Removed the smoke bridge from the dashboard

2) Factory reset the smoke bridge 

3) Updated the ISY to most recent ISY firmware

4) Rebooted the ISY

5) Linked the reset smoke bridge to the ISY again

6) Connected the smoke bridge to the First Alert smoke alarm

 

After all this, I'm STILL getting duplicated notifications from the test function of the smoke alarm, and also when the smoke alarm detects smoke.

 

Smoke alarm is about 15 feet above the smoke bridge on the same wall. I'm not having any other connection problems.

 

Does anyone know how to resolve this duplication?

 

What version if the ISY firmware and UI are you running

 

Post a copy of your program that you're using to send notifications.

Do you have more that one program sending notifications from the Smoke Bridge?

[Teken]

Assuming you have only one active email program in place. Insert a 3 second wait in the then section prior to the email path entry and report back success vs failure.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[macburn]

Techman, 

 

Firmware is 4.6.2

UI is 4.5.4

 

Program:

 

{

 

If:

Control 'FR - Sensor - Test' is switched On

 

Then:

Send Notification to 'User1 (Text)' content 'Hazard Alert - Sensor Test'

 

Else:

 

}

 

There is a similar, individual program for each type of alert. I've checked them all, and they are all set to be triggered by the specific status they are meant to report. Those are the only seven programs that are triggered by the Smoke Bridge. I have only been able to physically trigger the test and smoke status, and I get duplicated alerts on both. In all the programs, I am using the same programming that generated only one alert at my old house.

 

______________________

 

Teken,

 

I inserted a three second wait before the notifcation line in the then path. I received my first notification at 11:28:46 AM and my second at 11:28:58 AM.

 

In the meantime, I also introduced an integer variable called "count," and instructed the ISY to increment it by 1 in the then path. When I push the button on the smoke alarm to trigger the test, it rises to 1, and when the alarm begins sounding it rises to 2. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by macburn

[macburn]

As a side note, I'm sure I can modify my programming to compensate for this duplication, likely by introducing a variable and calling on the program to notify me only when the variable is at its first increment.  I just don't want to have to go to that length if there is something I'm overlooking, or some technical issue I don't know about, that I could solve instead.

[Teken]

First thing is to have matching firmware and UI. Next, based on your feedback there seems there is another program firing off a email. You can confirm this via the level 3 logs. As a quick test increase the wait to ten seconds this will eliminate any chance this is a debounce error.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Techman]

Techman, 

 

Firmware is 4.6.2

UI is 4.5.4

 

Program:

 

{

 

If:

Control 'FR - Sensor - Test' is switched On

 

Then:

Send Notification to 'User1 (Text)' content 'Hazard Alert - Sensor Test'

 

Else:

 

}

 

There is a similar, individual program for each type of alert. I've checked them all, and they are all set to be triggered by the specific status they are meant to report. Those are the only seven programs that are triggered by the Smoke Bridge. I have only been able to physically trigger the test and smoke status, and I get duplicated alerts on both. In all the programs, I am using the same programming that generated only one alert at my old house.

 

______________________

 

Teken,

 

I inserted a three second wait before the notifcation line in the then path. I received my first notification at 11:28:46 AM and my second at 11:28:58 AM.

 

In the meantime, I also introduced an integer variable called "count," and instructed the ISY to increment it by 1 in the then path. When I push the button on the smoke alarm to trigger the test, it rises to 1, and when the alarm begins sounding it rises to 2. 

 

As Teken suggested update your UI to 4.6.2

 

When I push the test button on my smoke alarm I also get 2 emails, about 11 seconds apart. It's possible that one is for smoke and the other is for CO2, but they both say Test On

[macburn]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the long delay - I've run into another problem (which I will mention at the end) that has made solving this one difficult.

 

Ok, so as recommended, I updated my GUI, and now both GUI and firmware match.

 

After doing this, I repeated my process of deleting the bridge from the ISY, factory resetting it, linking it to the ISY, and then linking it to the Smoke Alarm.

 

I accessed the level 3 logs, and I got this immediately after the button press:

 

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 00.00.03 CB 11 00    LTONRR (00)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [std-Group   ] 26.7B.7B-->Group=3, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [26 7B 7B 3] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [  26 7B 7B 3]      DON   0

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 28.CB.F0 41 11 03    LTONRR (03)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 26.7B.7B-->ISY/PLM Group=3, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Mon 08/07/2017 04:08:59 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:00 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 11.01.03 CB 06 00           (00)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:00 PM : [std-Group   ] 26.7B.7B-->11.01.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:00 PM : [iNST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.

 

Then, 12 seconds later (as the siren sounded):

 

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 00.00.03 CB 11 00    LTONRR (00)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [std-Group   ] 26.7B.7B-->Group=3, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [26 7B 7B 3] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [  26 7B 7B 3]      DON   0

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 28.CB.F0 41 11 03    LTONRR (03)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 26.7B.7B-->ISY/PLM Group=3, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:10 PM : [iNST-DUP    ] Previous message ignored.

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:11 PM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.7B.7B 11.01.03 CB 06 00           (00)

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:11 PM : [std-Group   ] 26.7B.7B-->11.01.03, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:11 PM : [iNST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.

Mon 08/07/2017 04:09:26 PM : [        Time] 16:09:37 1(0)

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I've never accessed the logs before, so most of this is meaningless to me, but I compared them and to my untrained eye they seem identical.

 

Perhaps this is just the way the new firmware interacts with the Smoke Bridge? I know that when I first installed the bridge at my old house (circa 2013 or so), I had the same programming running and it was one message only. 

 

Techman, have you tested with smoke / canned smoke? I did this before posting my message, and got two alerts about it, as I do with the test function.

 

Strangely enough, since the update (perhaps just a coincidence), I'm not getting any alerts at all now. I've tracked the problem to my email notifications. When I test them, I am getting responses like "Mail server DNS error" "SMTP_ERRORS-smtp.gmail.com" and EHLO timeout, etc. I haven't made any changes to my email settings in a long time.

 

I've tried using a different gmail account, and I'm getting the same responses. I'm on two-factor, but using an app-specific password for the ISY email configuration. I tried updating the password too, and still no-go.

 

Until I figure this out, I am not going to be able to make any progress on the original issue.

[macburn]

Update: I've used my Outlook program on Windows to send Gmail using the same settings as on the ISY, so I think that makes it more likely that the problem lies with the ISY, or its connection to the internet, rather than with Gmail, unless I'm missing something. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by macburn

[Techman]

Update: I've used my Outlook program on Windows to send Gmail using the same settings as on the ISY, so I think that makes it more likely that the problem lies with the ISY, or its connection to the internet, rather than with Gmail, unless I'm missing something. 

 

I've never tested with canned smoke.

Try a test of the smoke bridge by just pressing the test button on the smoke detector.

 

It possible that you don't have the email configuration properly set up on the ISY.

 

Take a look at this info http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY994:Configure_Mail_Server_Settings#Configuring_gmail_Account

Edited August 8, 2017 by Techman

[stusviews]

I had a similar problem (duplicate posts with a relatively fixed time between them). My solution was use a second program to disable the message sending program for a bit longer than the time between messages and then to re-enable the message sending program.

[stusviews]

I've never tested with canned smoke

 

How about Canned Heat?

[Goose66]

A separate but related question - if I install a single hardwired OneLink smoke detector (the new $119 one, I guess) and it is interconnected to my other hardwired First Alert Smoke/CO combo detectors, will the Smoke Bridge accurately report test/smoke/CO/low battery status from all my detectors, or just the one OneLink detector?

[Teken]

A separate but related question - if I install a single hardwired OneLink smoke detector (the new $119 one, I guess) and it is interconnected to my other hardwired First Alert Smoke/CO combo detectors, will the Smoke Bridge accurately report test/smoke/CO/low battery status from all my detectors, or just the one OneLink detector?

I'm pretty certain the $119.XX One Link you bought that supports WiFi is in name only and does not link to older 900 RF units. As First Alert in their infinite wisdom decided to use the One Link to denote their new line of Smart Products etc.

 

You can see this in the full users manual because it will say / won't say links to X smoke detectors showing the linking enrolling process.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bumbershoot]

A separate but related question - if I install a single hardwired OneLink smoke detector (the new $119 one, I guess) and it is interconnected to my other hardwired First Alert Smoke/CO combo detectors, will the Smoke Bridge accurately report test/smoke/CO/low battery status from all my detectors, or just the one OneLink detector?

 

I bought one of these older units (link below) on Amazon, and it connects to the Smoke Bridge just fine.  I only have one of these; all my other detectors are the interconnected Kidde detectors that came with the house.  Testing any of these alarms sends a signal to the Smoke Bridge --> ISY --> Elk.  The only issue is that I'm not informed which zone is in alarm, but in my installation, that's not a big deal.  I just want the house lights to come on, sirens to sound and a simulated F1 button press to happen on my Elk panel.  It's kind of a Rube Goldberg setup, but it'll have to do until I get the 2-way wireless transceiver for my Elk and wireless Elk detectors.  I currently don't receive a low battery notification from the Kidde detectors, but they chirp in the middle if the night just fine.

 

First Alert SA521CN Interconnected Hardwire Wireless Smoke Alarm with Battery Backup

[Goose66]

Thanks - that unit is much cheaper. I know that multiple hardwired First Alert Smoke/CO detectors can differentiate whether the alarming detector has detected smoke or CO and produce different alarms accordingly (they call it "smart interconnect"). I was hoping that someone could confirm that the one wireless device in that system would pass the different alarms (at least smoke vs. CO) to the Smoke Bridge.

 

Actually, the SA521CN is smoke only, so that wouldn't work in my setup (or at least I would lose CO in that zone as well as possible reporting to the Smoke Bridge).

Edited November 6, 2017 by kingwr

[Teken]

Thanks - that unit is much cheaper. I know that multiple hardwired First Alert Smoke/CO detectors can differentiate whether the alarming detector has detected smoke or CO and produce different alarms accordingly (they call it "smart interconnect"). I was hoping that someone could confirm that the one wireless device in that system would pass the different alarms (at least smoke vs. CO) to the Smoke Bridge.

 

The system once linked will provide what ever 7 condition is present: Smoke, CO, Low Battery, Malfunction, Clear, Test, Unknown. So if you link a properly recognized *One Link* it will communicate to the Insteon Smoke Bridge.

 

If this is simply a *Branded One Link* its not going to do anything and won't link to the Smoke Bridge. As an aside for those of you who own the Smoke & CO when the products CO has expired it will indicate a *Malfunction*. Also, the stupid thing won't actually tell you its expired just that there is a malfunction and if you look it up in the super thin paper manual it will say replace blah blah.

 

Just so you know depending upon when you purchased the Smoke & CO detector it will either have a 5 / 7 year working life. Smoke only have a 10 year working life and when I say working First Alert put in a self destruct timer from the time you insert the first battery!!

[Goose66]

I’m afraid I’m not following. The existing smoke/CO detectors are not OneLink. They are hardwired 9120Bs. I installed them last year when I bought the house to replace the 13 year old, original smokes. My question is will installing a hardwired OneLink detector, like AC10-500, and pairing it with a Smoke Linc, allow the ISY to recognize different types of alarms from the 9120Bs propagated through the “Smart Interconnect” to the AC10-500. This may be a buy it and try it scenario.

[Teken]

I’m afraid I’m not following. The existing smoke/CO detectors are not OneLink. They are hardwired 9120Bs. I installed them last year when I bought the house to replace the 13 year old, original smokes. My question is will installing a hardwired OneLink detector, like AC10-500, and pairing it with a Smoke Linc, allow the ISY to recognize different types of alarms from the 9120Bs propagated through the “Smart Interconnect” to the AC10-500. This may be a buy it and try it scenario.

As I stated early on the unit you have is NOT a true *One Link* and won't link to the Insteon Smoke Bridge.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Goose66]

Yeh, I get that. I don’t intend for the existing detectors to talk to the Smoke Bridge. I would buy a hardwired OneLink detector and the existing units would talk to it via “smart interconnect.” When they alarm for smoke, the OneLink detector would alarm for smoke. When they alarm for CO, the OneLink detector would alarm for CO. Are you saying that despite the fact that the OneLink detector would alarm for CO, for example, it would not send anything to the Smoke Bridge?

[Teken]

Yeh, I get that. I don’t intend for the existing detectors to talk to the Smoke Bridge. I would buy a hardwired OneLink detector and the existing units would talk to it via “smart interconnect.” When they alarm for smoke, the OneLink detector would alarm for smoke. When they alarm for CO, the OneLink detector would alarm for CO. Are you saying that despite the fact that the OneLink detector would alarm for CO, for example, it would not send anything to the Smoke Bridge?

 

Lets back up for a moment so we are on the same page and for the benefit of others who may find this thread later. This model (AC10-500) will not link to the Insteon Smoke Bridge just so we are clear as its a One Link by name, not function. If you intend to purchase what the other member noted which is the 120 VAC hardwired SA521CN One Link smoke only that will connect fine with the Insteon Smoke Bridge.

 

You may also purchase the battery only SCO501CN-3ST combination talking smoke & CO which also links fine to the Insteon Smoke Bridge.

 

Bottom line the AC10-500 can't be used with the Insteon Smoke Bridge . . .

[Goose66]

Excellent! Thanks for the info.

 

EDIT: Well, crap! It looks like BRK never made a hardwired combo smoke and CO detector with the old OneLink (915 MHz wireless interlink) that works with Smoke Bridge. They made the hardwired smoke only detector with old OneLink and the battery operated smoke and CO combo detector with old OneLink, as you mentioned, but not what I need.

 

I guess it's either just adding a relay to the 9120Bs and getting a single, uninformative alarm condition in the ISY or going with something completely different for all 6 hardwired detectors.

Edited November 7, 2017 by kingwr