Open/Close Sensor Status after Power Outage

[PhanTomiZ]

Hi,

 

My electricity where I live is pretty reliable.  I only get an outage twice a year and usually a few brown outs.  A few days ago I had a full blown power outage that lasted 45 minutes (not complaining).  When my ISY rebooted and after my query all program finished, I noticed that the status of my Open/Close sensors show up blank (No status).  Even after my Heartbeat program runs (25 hours), no status. The HB node does show status though.  Even after two days, still no ON/OFF status.  

 

It seems as long as I manually trigger these open/close sensors they will show status and all is fine.  

 

The problem I'm having and I've only just noticed this;  I'm using the Open/Close sensors on my windows to trigger my air conditioning.  (In the past I've had family members open windows while the air conditioner was running).  The idea was to shut the air conditioner off when any of these windows are open.  My programs worked very well until the power outage.

 

Here is my scenario:  it's been unseasonably cooler here in August and the windows have been open most of the month.  Then two days ago the power outage.  Then, when the power came back on, no status for Open/Close sensor, as far as my program is concerned it sees an Off condition even though the status is blank and the air conditioner was enabled.  If I go to each window and trigger each sensor in my program, all goes back to normal.

 

Questions:

1)  Is this normal for these sensors to not show status after an ISY reboot or power loss?  Should it not show last state of device rather than being blank?

2) Would there be a work around to this problem by adding some lines of program?

 

Any insight would be appreciated,

 

PhanTomiZ 

 

Using V4.62 UI and Firmware

[Teken]

Totally normal until the sensor is tripped again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

Normal as pointed out.

Since battery operated devices go in to a power saving mode and will no respond to a Query. Even if you have Query modules at restart enabled in the ISY Administrative console. It will be blank until it sends a On Off or I believe it also has a heartbeat.

[Teken]

An expensive work around is placing the ISY Series Controller on a dedicated UPS. I did this way back in the day for exactly this problem.

 

Also the use of Status vs Control is something you may want to play with but for me I don't see the value in doing so. As it could very well introduce another unexpected behavior not planned for.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PhanTomiZ]

An expensive work around is placing the ISY Series Controller on a dedicated UPS. I did this way back in the day for exactly this problem.

 

Also the use of Status vs Control is something you may want to play with but for me I don't see the value in doing so. As it could very well introduce another unexpected behavior not planned for.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have my ISY on a UPS.  Same one I use for my computer.  PLM is not because of powerline communications.

 

Because the last state is not remembered, I will set up a State variable and the appropriate "init" statement for the affected windows/doors to keep track of whether they are opened or closed.  A little more work, but I think this may be a good work around.

 

Thanks,

PhanTomiZ

[MWareman]

I have some battery sensors drive a program that turns a state variable to 1 or 0 (for on or off) and also sets the init value. My logic is then driven from the state variable rather than the sensor.

 

That way, if the ISY reboots state is preserved...

 

However, if the sensor changes while the ISY is off then they get out of sync. So, it does not work for all situations.

[larryllix]

I have some battery sensors drive a program that turns a state variable to 1 or 0 (for on or off) and also sets the init value. My logic is then driven from the state variable rather than the sensor.

 

That way, if the ISY reboots state is preserved...

 

However, if the sensor changes while the ISY is off then they get out of sync. So, it does not work for all situations.

I use that technique for a lot of my devices. With analogue devices the boot up, out of sync, lie is not a great though, showing 21.5 derees C instead of 22.0C that cahnged while ISY was sleeping.

 

A big advantage is when replacing a device, only one spot has to be changed in one program. This happenned recently when I got a newer, better thermostat for my main room, and the old one got repurposed to another zone. With dozens of an cyclers, monitoring programs, extreme weather draught compensation etc..etc.. it really helped.

[PhanTomiZ]

I have some battery sensors drive a program that turns a state variable to 1 or 0 (for on or off) and also sets the init value. My logic is then driven from the state variable rather than the sensor.

 

That way, if the ISY reboots state is preserved...

 

However, if the sensor changes while the ISY is off then they get out of sync. So, it does not work for all situations.

 

I see the dilemma.  

 

I wonder if there is a Z-Wave Open/Close sensor that would be a better solution?  Any battery operated device that could be queried?  My door locks are battery operated and can be queried for status.

 

 

Thanks

PhanTomiZ

[PhanTomiZ]

An expensive work around is placing the ISY Series Controller on a dedicated UPS. I did this way back in the day for exactly this problem.

 

Also the use of Status vs Control is something you may want to play with but for me I don't see the value in doing so. As it could very well introduce another unexpected behavior not planned for.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess if I were to move my PLM to my UPS (both ISY and PLM on UPS), then this would keep track of Open/Close sensor status when the Main Power is lost or at least until my UPS is exhausted, in which case, I'd be back to square one.

 

My last power outage did exhaust my UPS, so no further ahead.

[Teken]

I guess if I were to move my PLM to my UPS (both ISY and PLM on UPS), then this would keep track of Open/Close sensor status when the Main Power is lost or at least until my UPS is exhausted, in which case, I'd be back to square one.

 

My last power outage did exhaust my UPS, so no further ahead.

This is where things can become very expensive for the average bear For most this is very much a hobby and after thought. While for others like me this is a long term investment and lifestyle.

 

In doing so, in my home there are lots of dedicated and redundant systems in place. In this case the ISY Series Controller is powered by its own over sized UPS.

 

Just this dedicated UPS can provide more than seven days of online power. Assuming this UPS failed that branch circuit is powered by a 24.7.365 online 120-240 whole house APC Symetra UPS system.

 

That system is powered by both grid power and a isolated PV system.

 

Assuming any of the above fail to operate the last line of defence is whole house Koehler 21 KWH Low RPM NG backup generator.

 

Last but not least if for what ever reason everything goes to hell. There is a secondary isolated off grid 3 KWH solar PV system with a massive LiPoe power pack that is wired in Series / Parallel to offer 5500 AH to a inverter system.

 

NOTE: The 5500 aH is not a typo!

[larryllix]

I guess if I were to move my PLM to my UPS (both ISY and PLM on UPS), then this would keep track of Open/Close sensor status when the Main Power is lost or at least until my UPS is exhausted, in which case, I'd be back to square one.

 

My last power outage did exhaust my UPS, so no further ahead.

Moving the PLM to a synthesized AC may not work well. Insteon relies on the locked frequency from the grid to operate, not colliding  packets into each other.

 

My UPS systems lock to my grid frequency, so that is not a problem while the grid supply is up. Once the grid supply  goes down, the UPS is on it's own frequency (no lock). I can't think of any Insteon things that I run off the UPS supply  during an outage though so haven't tried that aspect. They would be fed off the same AC source so that shouldn't be a problem and the grid devices have no power either. 

 

Whatever frequency the PLM runs from, should be the same phase locked frequency all Insteon device work from also.

 

Let us know how that works out for you.

[PhanTomiZ]

This is where things can become very expensive for the average bear For most this is very much a hobby and after thought. While for others like me this is a long term investment and lifestyle.

 

In doing so, in my home there are lots of dedicated and redundant systems in place. In this case the ISY Series Controller is powered by its own over sized UPS.

 

Just this dedicated UPS can provide more than seven days of online power. Assuming this UPS failed that branch circuit is powered by a 24.7.365 online 120-240 whole house APC Symetra UPS system.

 

That system is powered by both grid power and a isolated PV system.

 

Assuming any of the above fail to operate the last line of defence is whole house Koehler 21 KWH Low RPM NG backup generator.

 

Last but not least if for what ever reason everything goes to hell. There is a secondary isolated off grid 3 KWH solar PV system with a massive LiPoe power pack that is wired in Series / Parallel to offer 5500 AH to a inverter system.

 

NOTE: The 5500 aH is not a typo!

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow!!!!!!

 

If the power goes off.  I sit in the dark until it comes back on...

[PhanTomiZ]

Moving the PLM to a synthesized AC may not work well. Insteon relies on the locked frequency from the grid to operate, not colliding  packets into each other.

 

My UPS systems lock to my grid frequency, so that is not a problem while the grid supply is up. Once the grid supply  goes down, the UPS is on it's own frequency (no lock). I can't think of any Insteon things that I run off the UPS supply  during an outage though so haven't tried that aspect. They would be fed off the same AC source so that shouldn't be a problem and the grid devices have no power either. 

 

Whatever frequency the PLM runs from, should be the same phase locked frequency all Insteon device work from also.

 

Let us know how that works out for you.

Don't really want to move the PLM to the UPS.  For now I'll use the State Variable to keep track of it.  When an outage does present itself, I won't trigger any of the devices and do as the post in the above message...Sit in the dark and wait for the lights to come back on...

[Teken]

Wow!!!!!!

 

If the power goes off.  I sit in the dark until it comes back on...

 

Its safe to say 99% of the population does this too, as have I. I don't want people reading my reply misunderstanding what I stated up above. What I have done in my home is a lifestyle which I feel is a good investment for the security and safety of the family. This is also one of the major *Hobbies* I enjoy in life and my home is giant testing ground for system(s).

 

Its safe to say none of this could have been done or accomplished with out the Internet, Online Sales, and Government auctions. The average person isn't going to have eight 120/240 refrigerator sized UPS's in their home like I did.

 

Also, I am a *Old School* fan of low tech too . . .

 

LOL . . . 

 

 

[PhanTomiZ]

Its safe to say 99% of the population does this too, as have I. I don't want people reading my reply misunderstanding what I stated up above. What I have done in my home is a lifestyle which I feel is a good investment for the security and safety of the family. This is also one of the major *Hobbies* I enjoy in life and my home is giant testing ground for system(s).

 

Its safe to say none of this could have been done or accomplished with out the Internet, Online Sales, and Government auctions. The average person isn't going to have eight 120/240 refrigerator sized UPS's in their home like I did.

 

Also, I am a *Old School* fan of low tech too . . .

 

LOL . . . 

 

 

Candles!!!!!  That is old school.  

[Teken]

Yeah ~ I wanted to move away and limit my *Risks* from kerosene lamps. Keeping too many explosive / highly combustible liquids on hand was going to impact my ongoing cUL certification. Some I donated others I sold or gave to family and friends who could use them for camping. Right now my main focus is going very old school in all of the systems in the home.

 

The goal is to have three back ups that don't rely on the grid or electricity to produce heat, water, light, and food (cold) storage.

 

Its been a fantastic but long journey to meet the *Power of 3*.