How could I monitor how much my sump pump is running?

[MWareman]

You really don't need to get so complicated and measure current. Since the pump itself has a simple on/off switch (the float switch), you can easily just wire a relay to that same output and effectively be monitoring the float switch.

 

If you have an always on PC or RPi, you can put ioguys nodelink on it and put a webcontrol board directly onto an ISY (5.x firmware only). It works well. I have this setup with using a reed switch that webcontrol monitors and nodlink synchornizes to ISY. webcontrol has 8 of these inputs so for $40 you can monitor quite a few things. A relay and a float switch and a pressure switch together might cost another $40?

 

True.

 

But an Adafruit Feather Arduino compatible wifi board is $17, and the other components needed less than $10. It makes a really cheap wifi current sensor for all kinds of applications.

 

That being said, simple is almost always better. The relay solution (120v coil wired in parallel to the pump) is genius... still, I'd probably feed the relay contacts to a Adafruit Feather as well (with a pull up resistor) since it's so inexpensive. Total about $22 when using a single input.

 

Oh, the Feather has 9 gpio pins. So, that's less than $2 per input. Cannot beat that!

Edited September 8, 2017 by MWareman

[apostolakisl]

True.

 

But an Adafruit Feather Arduino compatible wifi board is $17, and the other components needed less than $10. It makes a really cheap wifi current sensor for all kinds of applications.

 

That being said, simple is almost always better. The relay solution (120v coil wired in parallel to the pump) is genius... still, I'd probably feed the relay contacts to a Adafruit Feather as well (with a pull up resistor) since it's so inexpensive. Total about $22 when using a single input.

 

Oh, the Feather has 9 gpio pins. So, that's less than $2 per input. Cannot beat that!

I found this  https://www.adafruit.com/product/3010?gclid=CjwKCAjw_8jNBRB-EiwA96Yp1nJLOazeLas9kCjWeW1cY--9yIWVOCdwdF0ymhyEVf55xaljeH9uURoCyJQQAvD_BwE

 

What board are you referring to?  How do you interface that with ISY?  The nice thing with cai is that nodelink makes it "native" on ISY.

[MWareman]

This one: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2821

 

And it would call the REST API to either maintain a variable, or run programs when events occur.

 

I do agree - a CAI Board and Nodelink being 'native' is nice though. I guess I like tinkering with Arduino...

[apostolakisl]

This one: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2821

 

And it would call the REST API to either maintain a variable, or run programs when events occur.

 

I do agree - a CAI Board and Nodelink being 'native' is nice though. I guess I like tinkering with Arduino...

Why don't you make a nodelink for it?  I know you can do it.  The PITA with CAI is just that it has no wifi so you have to pull ethernet to it or use a pricey wifi adapter.

 

I assume it runs some version of linux?  Which I'm thinking means you can write the node software right on it rather than having an intermediary.  

Edited September 8, 2017 by apostolakisl

[mwester]

There's already a node server for that board.

 

Edited to add:  http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/20239-proof-of-concept-micro-node-server-running-on-an-esp8266/

[kevkmartin]

I finally gave up on the Synchrolinc to monitor on / off and run time for the sump pump. I could never get it dialed in to read reliably - especially on times.

 

That combined with reports I read that an internal fuse can fail - disabling the pump - made me finally go with the solution I had been putting off.

 

I installed an outlet and a Mamac CT-800 current sensor in a 2-gang box. The upper and lower outlets are independent (broke the tab), so that only the bottom outlet is sensed by the CT-800.

 

Testing this with an IOLinc seems much more instant and reliable than the Synchrolinc.

 

Ultimately, I think I'm going to run the sense wires back to a zone on the ELK. That should make it virtually bulletproof.

 

[Teken]

I finally gave up on the Synchrolinc to monitor on / off and run time for the sump pump. I could never get it dialed in to read reliably - especially on times.

 

That combined with reports I read that an internal fuse can fail - disabling the pump - made me finally go with the solution I had been putting off.

 

I installed an outlet and a Mamac CT-800 current sensor in a 2-gang box. The upper and lower outlets are independent (broke the tab), so that only the bottom outlet is sensed by the CT-800.

 

Testing this with an IOLinc seems much more instant and reliable than the Synchrolinc.

 

Ultimately, I think I'm going to run the sense wires back to a zone on the ELK. That should make it virtually bulletproof.

 

 

I have to ask was that an existing switch you carved out an opening for that CT? 

[kevkmartin]

It was a blank decora filler plate that I mounted the switch to.

[Teken]

It was a blank decora filler plate that I mounted the switch to.

 

I believe if you had to do this again a cleaner approach would have been to purchase a dual plate cover but the other side would be solid. That would simply allow the CT to be hidden underneath and sit enclosed. This obviously assume the correct work box with the required depth to be used. Regardless, could you offer a inside view of what this whole thing looks like?

[kevkmartin]

I believe if you had to do this again a cleaner approach would have been to purchase a dual plate cover but the other side would be solid. That would simply allow the CT to be hidden underneath and sit enclosed. This obviously assume the correct work box with the required depth to be used. Regardless, could you offer a inside view of what this whole thing looks like?

Leaving the LV connection on the outside gave me complete separation of LV / HV. I thought about getting a “single gang double plate” and cutting out, but then the mount screws would have been exposed.

 

I could have done that with a box divider too, I acknowledge.

 

In the end, it’s all hidden in a sump pit wiring closet anyway.

[Teken]

Leaving the LV connection on the outside gave me complete separation of LV / HV. I thought about getting a “single gang double plate” and cutting out, but then the mount screws would have been exposed.

 

I could have done that with a box divider too, I acknowledge.

 

In the end, it’s all hidden in a sump pit wiring closet anyway.

 

As you stated a divider to separate both HV / LV would have been the ideal solution while staying with in NEC / CEC.

 

Matters not you get a (A) for over all execution . . .

[kevkmartin]

As you stated a divider to separate both HV / LV would have been the ideal solution while staying with in NEC / CEC.

 

Matters not you get a (A) for over all execution . . .

Thanks! This gave me the best separation of LV / HV. I ended up running it to an ELK zone and using that to monitor / log.

[Teken]

Thanks! This gave me the best separation of LV / HV. I ended up running it to an ELK zone and using that to monitor / log.

 

You wouldn't happen to have a inside look of this setup do you? Also, do you recall what the final costs was for the CT sensor and a resource link? One of the guys looking over my shoulders is asking and BTW. To everyone in the forums lots of tech nerds are very happy with the alternate solutions from: Relays, Web Control, Adafruit, etc.

 

Seeing nine tech nerds all eye balling this thread is quite comical . . .

[larryllix]

The CAI boards don't need anything else. The ISY Rest variable stuffer code is built right in to it.

 

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[someguy]

I finally gave up on the Synchrolinc to monitor on / off and run time for the sump pump. I could never get it dialed in to read reliably - especially on times.

 

That combined with reports I read that an internal fuse can fail - disabling the pump - made me finally go with the solution I had been putting off.

 

I installed an outlet and a Mamac CT-800 current sensor in a 2-gang box. The upper and lower outlets are independent (broke the tab), so that only the bottom outlet is sensed by the CT-800.

 

Testing this with an IOLinc seems much more instant and reliable than the Synchrolinc.

 

Ultimately, I think I'm going to run the sense wires back to a zone on the ELK. That should make it virtually bulletproof.

 

Kevkmartin:

 

I'd like to replicate what you've done here, all but connecting it to Elk (I don't have Elk).  How would I wire this into my sump plug in and how would I wire this to the iolinc?  

[kevkmartin]

For the pump, you just plug it into the outlet that is fed by the hot (black) wire that loops through the sensor core.

 

The two visible screws are a “dry contact” that is open when the pump is off, and closed when the pump is on, so you would connect one to common on IOLINC, and the other to NO (Normally Open).

[someguy]

For the pump, you just plug it into the outlet that is fed by the hot (black) wire that loops through the sensor core.

 

The two visible screws are a “dry contact” that is open when the pump is off, and closed when the pump is on, so you would connect one to common on IOLINC, and the other to NO (Normally Open).

Okay, I think I understand but I'd like to dumb it down a smidge:

 

The "hot" (black wire) that was going to the plug in where the sump is plugged in goes to one pole of the Mamac CT-800 and the other pole of the Mamac CT-800 connects where that hot wire was removed?  Does it matter (maybe it'll be obvious when I get the CT-800) which of the two poles the black wire goes to?  The CT-800 doesn't need a white wire?

 

Much appreciated.

[J_Barrett]

Hi

 

This may do what you want - PowerState Tail it plugs in between the pump and the wall outlet  and give you a contact closure when the the pump turns on

 

http://www.powerswitchtail.com/powerstate-tail

[kevkmartin]

Hi

 

This may do what you want - PowerState Tail it plugs in between the pump and the wall outlet and give you a contact closure when the the pump turns on

 

http://www.powerswitchtail.com/powerstate-tail

The whole point here is NOT to put a device ( which can fail and result in the sump pump not working) in-line with the power feed to the pump.

[kevkmartin]

Okay, I think I understand but I'd like to dumb it down a smidge:

 

The "hot" (black wire) that was going to the plug in where the sump is plugged in goes to one pole of the Marmac CT-800 and the other pole of the Marmac CT-800 connects where that hot wire was removed? Does it matter (maybe it'll be obvious when I get the CT-800) which of the two poles the black wire goes to? The CT-800 doesn't need a white wire?

 

Much appreciated.

No. No high voltage connections are made to the sensor at all. It is completely passive. The black wire (hot) is just looped through a hole in the sensor (inside the junction box) before connecting to the outlet terminal.

[Brian H]

You may find added information form this Cocoontech tutorial using a CT800

http://cocoontech.com/forums/page/articles/_/tutorials/home-automation-tutorials/how-to-monitor-the-status-of-your-appliances-using-current-sensors-r58

[someguy]

No. No high voltage connections are made to the sensor at all. It is completely passive. The black wire (hot) is just looped through a hole in the sensor (inside the junction box) before connecting to the outlet terminal.

Let me understand better:

No copper touched the CT-800?!?

So what powers the CT-800?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

Let me understand better:

No copper touched the CT-800?!?

So what powers the CT-800?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is self powered.

The current though the load being sensed. By the wire passed through the CT800 core. Induces a voltage into the sensor and it closes the output terminals.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Brian H

[apostolakisl]

Let me understand better:

No copper touched the CT-800?!?

So what powers the CT-800?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I don't know for sure, not owning one of these, but current sensors ingeneral use induction to detect current and it is certainly possible that if a sufficient amount of current is induced within the current sensor induction coil, then it can use that as its own power source.  Basically it is a transformer.

[kevkmartin]

It is self powered.

The current though the load being sensed. By the wire passed through the CT800 core. Induces a voltage into the sensor and it closes the output terminals.

Correct. There are no power connections to the sensor whatsoever.