Is the PLM gone?

[gdntx]

I've got an ISY 994i with zwave (add on after purchase).    I've been running this system with a prior ISY99i for many years, 8 to 10 - don't recall.     2 years ago I remodeled the house - new wiring, everything.   Upgraded to the 994i.    All has been running well since the remodel.    Also added Alexa and great control as well as from MobilLinc on the phone.

 

The problem started about 3 weeks back - would have to ask Alexa a couple of times to get a switch to respond, then it got worse and over the last week I have very few switches (and it is random) coming on when my "dusk" program runs and almost nothing will respond to Alexa, nor to MobilLinc Pro on an iPhone and not even to the raw Java ISY interface.

 

When I open the interface I get "Failed Communicating with" error messages for almost all switches.     I was able to successfully update my ISY code to 4.6.2 - same is running for both Firmware and UI.    I was able to get the log and see some errors popping up back a few months ago and in the last 2 weeks, starting on 9/15 I've got many "error" messages every day in the "control" column of the log.    The system has just about become inoperable.    I've turned the power off to the whole house and let all switches power down and back up.   

 

Reading a couple of other threads for information, I didn't watch the lights on the PLM but there are two stickers on the back of it - one says V2.9 with 0197 underneath it and the other is is the model 2412S with 0842 under it.   I'm thinking this could be the original PLM as it's been years since I replaced it, if ever.

 

I also went to PLM info/Satus it shows "xx.xx.xx v72/connected" and the PLM Links table doesn't show me anything when I open it and when I do the count it shows 0.   From some of the other threads it sounds as this is the key that the PLM may be gone.

 

Any insight is appreciated.

[Teken]

I've got an ISY 994i with zwave (add on after purchase).    I've been running this system with a prior ISY99i for many years, 8 to 10 - don't recall.     2 years ago I remodeled the house - new wiring, everything.   Upgraded to the 994i.    All has been running well since the remodel.    Also added Alexa and great control as well as from MobilLinc on the phone.

 

The problem started about 3 weeks back - would have to ask Alexa a couple of times to get a switch to respond, then it got worse and over the last week I have very few switches (and it is random) coming on when my "dusk" program runs and almost nothing will respond to Alexa, nor to MobilLinc Pro on an iPhone and not even to the raw Java ISY interface.

 

When I open the interface I get "Failed Communicating with" error messages for almost all switches.     I was able to successfully update my ISY code to 4.6.2 - same is running for both Firmware and UI.    I was able to get the log and see some errors popping up back a few months ago and in the last 2 weeks, starting on 9/15 I've got many "error" messages every day in the "control" column of the log.    The system has just about become inoperable.    I've turned the power off to the whole house and let all switches power down and back up.   

 

Reading a couple of other threads for information, I didn't watch the lights on the PLM but there are two stickers on the back of it - one says V2.9 with 0197 underneath it and the other is is the model 2412S with 0842 under it.   I'm thinking this could be the original PLM as it's been years since I replaced it, if ever.

 

I also went to PLM info/Satus it shows "xx.xx.xx v72/connected" and the PLM Links table doesn't show me anything when I open it and when I do the count it shows 0.   From some of the other threads it sounds as this is the key that the PLM may be gone.

 

Any insight is appreciated.

 

The 2412S PLM was single band and powered the ISY Series Controller directly. You had a good run its time to replace it with a dual band 2413S PLM. While you await for the new hardware you may consider doing the capacitor repair listed in this forum.

 

PLM Repair Thread: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/

Edited September 29, 2017 by Teken

[Brian H]

The 2412S PLM provides power to the ISY Controller. The 2413S does not provide power. So be sure you get a wall wart supply also. If you didn't have a optional wall wart supply. With the 2412S.

 

The long capacitor fix thread here will not work on a 2412S.

Completely different power supply design. 2412S has a linear power transformer design. The 2413S has a switching power supply.

I can look up the capacitor data for the 2412S if you want it.

 

The 2413S is Dual Band as pointed out. It also has a faster processor and memory. So it may give you added performance.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Brian H

[gdntx]

Thanks for the replies and the reminder/heads up about the power supply.    I believed last night it was the PLM, so I found and ordered it from Amazon - it will arrive today (2413S new January 2017 design).    So now I've got to circle back and get the power supply, may just go to Fry's to pick that up if Amazon can't deliver today or tomorrow at the latest.

 

I looked last night at the ISY bundles they sell and they never bundle a power supply with them and in fact still push that the unit can be powered from the ISY. (From their own description:   (Please Note. The ISY994iZw/IR Pro does not require a power supply when used with a PLM (included) which supplies power via the RJ-45 port. ISY994iZw/IR Pro does provide a port for an optional AC adapter for instances where the PLM does not supply power, or the user prefers to supply power independent of the PLM (for example, PLM 2413S).)

 

What PLM do they bundle if they are able to still get power from the PLM?  Old ones or perhaps the USB one which I've not studied enough?

 

I'll go take a look, hope to find an easy part number for the recommended power supply to purchase.

 

Thanks again.

[Teken]

Thanks for the replies and the reminder/heads up about the power supply. I believed last night it was the PLM, so I found and ordered it from Amazon - it will arrive today (2413S new January 2017 design). So now I've got to circle back and get the power supply, may just go to Fry's to pick that up if Amazon can't deliver today or tomorrow at the latest.

 

I looked last night at the ISY bundles they sell and they never bundle a power supply with them and in fact still push that the unit can be powered from the ISY. (From their own description: (Please Note. The ISY994iZw/IR Pro does not require a power supply when used with a PLM (included) which supplies power via the RJ-45 port. ISY994iZw/IR Pro does provide a port for an optional AC adapter for instances where the PLM does not supply power, or the user prefers to supply power independent of the PLM (for example, PLM 2413S).)

 

What PLM do they bundle if they are able to still get power from the PLM? Old ones or perhaps the USB one which I've not studied enough?

 

I'll go take a look, hope to find an easy part number for the recommended power supply to purchase.

 

Thanks again.

 

That is obviously old data from where ever you quoted. The 2412S PLM hasn't been in production for more than eight years. The 2413S PLM will require a dedicated power supply which can range from 5 ~ 30 VDC.

 

The ISY Series Controller offers one of the widest input voltages of any smart controller made. This should allow you to purchase what ever is available in your local market.

 

Keep in mind regardless of PSU voltage output. The system requires a minimum current (amperes) of 1 amp.

 

You can never go wrong with having more so a PSU that offers 2~3 amps is ideal because it can provide the current for the add on (Z-Wave/ZigBee) cards without drawing down on the system.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

You said you updated to a ISY994i.

Didn't it come with a wall wart as part of the standard package?

[apostolakisl]

My bet is you already have a wall wart that works, assuming that like me you don't throw them out.  12v power supplies that put out 1 amp or more are pretty common.  Even if you have one that is running something else, you could temporarily use it for you ISY.  Of course any voltage within the spec range will work, but 12v wall warts are all over the place.

[gdntx]

Thanks for the insight and feed back.    I went ahead and ordered the new PLM last night knowing how old mine was and from other threads I read here.   With Amazon Prime it showed up at 10 this morning.   The feed back on the wall warts is good, and I find now that I did already have one that would likely work, but I also have an Altex not too far from the house so ran over there at lunch and bought a 5V 2Amp that fits the plug.

 

For some followup from other posts - I bought my 994i 3 years back and it likely could have come with a wall wart, but I don't remember it.   I bought on one of the upgrade programs and got a good deal on it, so thinking it really didn't come with one.   The information I posted about the ISY not needing a power supply if bundled with a PLM came right from a current description of the ISY, but I don't remember which web site.   The 5 volt power adapter info comes out of the detailed manual for the ISY.

 

I used the method to Replace the PLM - it worked pretty well, it missed two switches, so I ran it again and it missed two more - so I cut my losses and just deleted those 4 switches and added them back manually.   I have almost no linking information in any switch - I use programs to turn them on and off when I want via the ISY.   

 

Other than a couple of switches that are several years old and have been given me problems it looks like I'm back up and running the programs this evening turned all of my lights back on which hadn't happened in two weeks.    For now it's success.   

[stusviews]

Sound good--except that you're using a program rather than a scene to turn a device on and off. Programs inherently introduce a slight delay, scenes are instantaneous. Programs allow for a conditional trigger, scenes don't. Programs use links, scenes don't. Scenes continue to function even without the ISY, programs don't.

 

Any particular reason(s) that you're using a program rather than a scene.

[KeviNH]

Thanks for the replies and the reminder/heads up about the power supply.    I believed last night it was the PLM, so I found and ordered it from Amazon - it will arrive today (2413S new January 2017 design).    So now I've got to circle back and get the power supply, may just go to Fry's to pick that up if Amazon can't deliver today or tomorrow at the latest.

 

I looked last night at the ISY bundles they sell and they never bundle a power supply with them and in fact still push that the unit can be powered from the ISY. (From their own description:   (Please Note. The ISY994iZw/IR Pro does not require a power supply when used with a PLM (included) which supplies power via the RJ-45 port. ISY994iZw/IR Pro does provide a port for an optional AC adapter for instances where the PLM does not supply power, or the user prefers to supply power independent of the PLM (for example, PLM 2413S).)

 

What PLM do they bundle if they are able to still get power from the PLM?  Old ones or perhaps the USB one which I've not studied enough?

Some of the Smarthome kits still have that old text about not needing a power supply,

 

Most of the kits do include a power supply.

[gdntx]

Sound good--except that you're using a program rather than a scene to turn a device on and off. Programs inherently introduce a slight delay, scenes are instantaneous. Programs allow for a conditional trigger, scenes don't. Programs use links, scenes don't. Scenes continue to function even without the ISY, programs don't.

 

Any particular reason(s) that you're using a program rather than a scene.

 

 

I've never had much luck with scenes.   I know it's apparently the way to go and I know many use them, but I got frustrated a few years back and have never gone back.   Maybe I need to go back to them and give them a shot, play with it some more.     I've never been very successful with 3 way switches either.     I had X10 switches, I've had Insteon for 8 to 10 years, have had the ISY, MobiLinc, Alexa - I work in IT and understand how most of it works, but have just had no luck with scenes.    Not sure why - maybe I tried to make them too complicated, but seems I never got more than about half of the switches to come on or off when they should.    

 

I get the delay and in fact with the program to get it to work and get most switches on I put one second between turning each one on or off and then I even have a loop and execute the program twice each time because I still get a switch or two that won't come on.       I noted the house had been completely remodeled about 2 years back, complete new wiring as well.   Before that I had aluminum wiring and the circuits were strung all over the house so maybe the new wiring will help me out and I should give it a shot.   I've got about 24 switches and outlets, most of them several years old. I now have the new PLM and probably 5 switches that are dual band, the rest are all old single band switches.   I've got 2 switches now that need to be replaced - they won't respond at the toggle at all and only sometimes to my program.  

[Teken]

I've never had much luck with scenes.   I know it's apparently the way to go and I know many use them, but I got frustrated a few years back and have never gone back.   Maybe I need to go back to them and give them a shot, play with it some more.     I've never been very successful with 3 way switches either.     I had X10 switches, I've had Insteon for 8 to 10 years, have had the ISY, MobiLinc, Alexa - I work in IT and understand how most of it works, but have just had no luck with scenes.    Not sure why - maybe I tried to make them too complicated, but seems I never got more than about half of the switches to come on or off when they should.    

 

I get the delay and in fact with the program to get it to work and get most switches on I put one second between turning each one on or off and then I even have a loop and execute the program twice each time because I still get a switch or two that won't come on.       I noted the house had been completely remodeled about 2 years back, complete new wiring as well.   Before that I had aluminum wiring and the circuits were strung all over the house so maybe the new wiring will help me out and I should give it a shot.   I've got about 24 switches and outlets, most of them several years old. I now have the new PLM and probably 5 switches that are dual band, the rest are all old single band switches.   I've got 2 switches now that need to be replaced - they won't respond at the toggle at all and only sometimes to my program.  

 

As more devices get replaced with Insteon dual band hardware. You will quickly see using scenes is the best method with out delay. Keeping in mind all of the basics must be done to ensure a reliable and consistent Insteon network.

 

- Confirm proper coupling of the split single phase electrical system via the 4 tap (beacon) test. Outlined by any dual band full users manual explaining the same.

- Ensure you have at least one dual band device on all four corners of the home on each floor, zone, etc.

- Identify any noise makers / signal suckers in the home and your choices are: Filter, Replace, Remove

- Always hard reset every new device prior to enrollment into the ISY Series Controller.

- Never place the 2413S PLM on a UPS unless your primary goal is isolate, protect, test.  

[gdntx]

So I've decided to embrace scenes again and give them a try based on your feedback.  Between the new house wiring 2 years ago, the new faster PLM, several dual band switches, all of the above seem to all be working as designed now.    I've ditched my two daily programs - or well didn't ditch them, but replaced all of the lines turning everything on twice and waiting one second between and now they each execute one or two lines to turn on or off the new scenes I've created. 

 

My logic had to change in how I control things, but only slightly.  I turn about 2/3 of my indoor lights on with one scene and out side lights (porch and landscape) lights with a second scene.  I then turn the indoor lights off via MobiLinc or a KPL button when I go to bed or if I'm not at home I have a program that runs during the night to turn indoor lights off via the scene.  Then at dawn I have another program that turns the outside lights off.

 

I've got some other programs that I used for Movie time or if someone goes to bed early, so I'll spend some time turning those in to scenes over the next few weeks as well.

 

So far all seems to be working well with the scenes and it much nicer having all the lights come on at once vs taking a minute or two to get them all on.

 

Thanks again for the feedback about trying scenes.   

[Teken]

So I've decided to embrace scenes again and give them a try based on your feedback.  Between the new house wiring 2 years ago, the new faster PLM, several dual band switches, all of the above seem to all be working as designed now.    I've ditched my two daily programs - or well didn't ditch them, but replaced all of the lines turning everything on twice and waiting one second between and now they each execute one or two lines to turn on or off the new scenes I've created. 

 

My logic had to change in how I control things, but only slightly.  I turn about 2/3 of my indoor lights on with one scene and out side lights (porch and landscape) lights with a second scene.  I then turn the indoor lights off via MobiLinc or a KPL button when I go to bed or if I'm not at home I have a program that runs during the night to turn indoor lights off via the scene.  Then at dawn I have another program that turns the outside lights off.

 

I've got some other programs that I used for Movie time or if someone goes to bed early, so I'll spend some time turning those in to scenes over the next few weeks as well.

 

So far all seems to be working well with the scenes and it much nicer having all the lights come on at once vs taking a minute or two to get them all on.

 

Thanks again for the feedback about trying scenes.   

 

Once you completed all of the changes to the system ensure you make a good back up. Store a few copies on external drives, cloud copy, and hard media. 

[Tapatalk]

My bet is you already have a wall wart that works, assuming that like me you don't throw them out. 12v power supplies that put out 1 amp or more are pretty common. Even if you have one that is running something else, you could temporarily use it for you ISY. Of course any voltage within the spec range will work, but 12v wall warts are all over the place.

I'm from tapatalk, test for quote issue.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4X using Tapatalk