How do I do this?

[Traditore]

Hi,

 

I've just learned a new ApplianceLinc into my ISY. Then, I linked a KPL button to my ApplianceLinc within ISY, not physically. The KPL button works and the ApplianceLinc turns on and off as it should.

 

If I push the SET button on the ApplianceLinc to manually turn it on or off, the status doesn't update on the KPL button. I tried creating a scene to make the KPL button a responder, but that doesn't seem to do the trick. Am I missing something here?

[Sub-Routine]

Hi,

 

I've just learned a new ApplianceLinc into my ISY. Then, I linked a KPL button to my ApplianceLinc within ISY, not physically. The KPL button works and the ApplianceLinc turns on and off as it should.

 

If I push the SET button on the ApplianceLinc to manually turn it on or off, the status doesn't update on the KPL button. I tried creating a scene to make the KPL button a responder, but that doesn't seem to do the trick. Am I missing something here?

 

AFAIK, ApplianceLincs do not send any messages when their status is changed manually. Tools/Diagnostics/Event Viewer will let you see if it does.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

It looks like you're right. The Event viewer doesn't show anything when I press the Set button on my ApplianceLinc.

 

Is that why my ISY doesn't show the new status when I press the ApplianceLinc Set button, unless I query my ApplianceLinc?

[Sub-Routine]

It looks like you're right. The Event viewer doesn't show anything when I press the Set button on my ApplianceLinc.

 

Is that why my ISY doesn't show the new status when I press the ApplianceLinc Set button, unless I query my ApplianceLinc?

 

Yes. The ISY is not notified. The good news is that if you use the KPL or any other controller instead of the set button then the ISY does notice and will stay synced.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

Ok then. How come the following program does not work after I query my ApplianceLinc and ISY reports correctly that it is on?

 

If

Status 'ApplianceLinc' is On

 

Then

Set Scene 'KPL LED' On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

where 'KPL LED' is a scene containing my KPL button as a responder.

[Sub-Routine]

Ok then. How come the following program does not work after I query my ApplianceLinc and ISY reports correctly that it is on?

 

 

I push the set button on my ApplianceLinc.

I query

 

Did you Query when the AL was Off? The program won't trigger unless there is a change in Status.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

[i edited my last message because there was some copy-paste garbage at the end.]

 

Here's my scenario: My KPL button is OFF. I press the Set button to turn ON my AL (ISY shows its status is OFF, so does my KPL button). Then, I query my AL, and my ISY now shows that my AL is ON. But I don't think the program is running because the KPL button doesn't turn on.

[Sub-Routine]

I edited my last message because there was some copy-paste garbage at the end.

 

I queried my AL when it was ON.

 

Query it once when Off, then again when On. Once the ISY sees a change in Status the program should trigger. Otherwise the program would just keep looping.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

Query it once when Off, then again when On. Once the ISY sees a change in Status the program should trigger. Otherwise the program would just keep looping.[

 

Sorry for the edits and the crossed posts. Does that change your reply?

[Traditore]

I did what you suggested:

 

Query on OFF status

Turn ON my AL manually

Query on ON status

ISY sees the change and updates the KPL LED status

(yippee!)

 

But this is very involved. Is there a way to circumvent this? I know it's just for a LED, but I'm very obsessive.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Traditore,

 

Unfortunately, till such time that APs can become controllers, this is the only way (polling for status).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I did what you suggested:

 

Query on OFF status

Turn ON my AL manually

Query on ON status

ISY sees the change and updates the KPL LED status

(yippee!)

 

But this is very involved. Is there a way to circumvent this? I know it's just for a LED, but I'm very obsessive.

[MikeB]

I'm just curious - any reason you want to use the set button to turn the ApplianceLinc on? Or are you using load sensing?

[Sub-Routine]

An example polling program:

 

If
       From    12:00:00AM
       For      24 hours 

Then
       Repeat Every  15 minutes 
          Set 'ApplianceLinc' Query

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

You don't want to poll very often as it creates a lot of traffic. This is one program you want to Run at Startup.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

I'm just curious - any reason you want to use the set button to turn the ApplianceLinc on? Or are you using load sensing?

 

Just a safety concern. There is a wall-mounted ceramic heater plugged into my AL. It's in the kids playroom and very accessible. I just want to be able to monitor it in case the young ones fiddle with it.

 

Out of curiosity, do LampLincs send a message when their status is changed manually? I can't test this as I don't have any LL.

 

Thanks Rand for all your help.

[MikeB]

Not that I'm aware of. I have heard rumors that some of the newer devices do broadcast status changes, but I haven't been able to confirm that here.

 

If you don't mind a small mount of DIY work, you could install a SwitchLinc Relay into a tabletop enclosure like this:

http://www.smarthome.com/2402WH/Tableto ... ite/p.aspx

 

Chop up an extension cord and you could build your own tabletop controller for any plug-in device.

[Traditore]

Chop up an extension cord and you could build your own tabletop controller for any plug-in device.

 

I'm not sure I follow... I get that I can install a SLR, instead of a KPL, into a tabletop enclosure. But why chop up an extension cord?

[MikeB]

The extension cord would provide you with a female end to attach to the LOAD of the SwitchLinc. By default, this enclosure does not support a load.

[Traditore]

The extension cord would provide you with a female end to attach to the LOAD of the SwitchLinc. By default, this enclosure does not support a load.

 

I had never seen the innards of the tabletop enclosure, so I took a look at the quick start guide on SH's website. Still, I don't understand how that might help me. Are you're suggesting I forego the ApplianceLinc altogether and plug my ceramic heater in a chopped up extension wired into a tabletop enclosure?

 

If so, aren't there usually three wires inside an extension cord? Would I wire those three wires inside the enclosure as well, or just the load and ground? Would that mean I'd plug my enclosure into a wall socket, and my heater into the extension cord?

 

Sorry if I'm not making sense.

[Sub-Routine]

 

I had never seen the innards of the tabletop enclosure, so I took a look at the quick start guide on SH's website. Still, I don't understand how that might help me. Are you're suggesting I forego the ApplianceLinc altogether and plug my ceramic heater in a chopped up extension wired into a tabletop enclosure?

 

Yes.

 

If so, aren't there usually three wires inside an extension cord? Would I wire those three wires inside the enclosure as well, or just the load and ground? Would that mean I'd plug my enclosure into a wall socket, and my heater into the extension cord?

 

Sorry if I'm not making sense.

 

The three wires from the plug would be connected to hot (black), neutral and ground on the switch. The three wires to the socket would connect to load (red), neutral and ground. The neutral and ground are common to both ends of the cord.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

You lost me there. Completely!

 

1st step: The neutral from the enclosure power cord goes with the SL's neutral and enclosure's line to the SL's line. This is the power cord that plugs into the wall socket.

 

2nd step: The extension cord. On one end, there's a female plug, where I would plug in my heater. On the other end, there are 3 wires: the extension cord ground goes with the SL's ground, one of the two remaining wires goes with SL's load and the last wire goes with the SL's neutral.

 

Huh?

 

Have I started a fire yet?

[gregoryx]

Traditore, you're stating it correctly.

 

See if stating it differently helps:

- All three grounds nutted together;

- All three commons nutted together;

- Hot from power side to SL black;

- Hot from load side (female of extension cord) to SL red.

 

BTW, just want to be sure in your previous post that you're not thinking of using a LampLinc on that heater. That'd be bad.

 

While we're on the topic of how to solve this, though... you don't say whether you're concerned about the little ones turning this thing ON or OFF more. If you're worried it'll be left on, you can query the AL every hour or whatever. If you're worried they'll push the set button on the AL, then I'm not sure we're helping much by putting a bunch of more obvious and accessible buttons out for the kiddos.

 

Perhaps an OutletLinc would help with less to push (the button's pretty hard to get to when something's plugged in).

 

There's always the problem that on an AL or LL, turning the load off and on turns the AL/LL on - in case you weren't aware; from my testing, the OLs don't seem to do this.

[Sub-Routine]

 

Perhaps an OutletLinc would help with less to push (the button's pretty hard to get to when something's plugged in).

 

There's always the problem that on an AL or LL, turning the load off and on turns the AL/LL on - in case you weren't aware; from my testing, the OLs don't seem to do this.

 

I was thinking of the OutletLinc as well but I doubt if they broadcast any changes. I don't have any to test with. Gregoryx? It could well be a better way to keep the kids from changing the state.

 

It does appear as if Smarthome is rolling out more devices that do broadcast on changes like the INSTEON-In-LineLinc-On-Off-Module-Non-dimming-w-Sense. I don't see any remarks as to local control on it though.

 

Rand

[Traditore]

BTW, just want to be sure in your previous post that you're not thinking of using a LampLinc on that heater. That'd be bad.

 

I figured dimming the LL would increase or decrease the heat... Just kidding!

 

While we're on the topic of how to solve this, though... you don't say whether you're concerned about the little ones turning this thing ON or OFF more. If you're worried it'll be left on, you can query the AL every hour or whatever. If you're worried they'll push the set button on the AL, then I'm not sure we're helping much by putting a bunch of more obvious and accessible buttons out for the kiddos.

 

I'm especially worried they might push the set button. Technically, if I route the extension cord carefully, I could put the tabletop enclosure out of reach of the young ones. I figure the ceiling is high enough.

 

Perhaps an OutletLinc would help with less to push (the button's pretty hard to get to when something's plugged in).

 

I hadn't even thought about that. It might be the best way to go.

 

There's always the problem that on an AL or LL, turning the load off and on turns the AL/LL on - in case you weren't aware; from my testing, the OLs don't seem to do this.

 

Load sensing? What? I've just tested my two ALs and manually turned on and off their respective load (ceramic heater and CFL lamp). My ALs don't exhibit the behavior you mention. I don't have any LLs nor OLs.

 

I was thinking of the OutletLinc as well but I doubt if they broadcast any changes. I don't have any to test with. Gregoryx? It could well be a better way to keep the kids from changing the state.

 

As long as it makes it difficult for the kids to turn on the heater, I could very well do without the broadcast on status changes. Though it'd be nice to have it.

 

Gregoryx: Could you test your OL if you have a minute? And confirm that your ALs and LLs really turn on when the load changes? Thanks a bunch for this.

[MikeB]

I'm especially worried they might push the set button. Technically, if I route the extension cord carefully, I could put the tabletop enclosure out of reach of the young ones. I figure the ceiling is high enough.

 

So, if you just want to control the heater via Insteon, but want to avoid local control altogether, why not use an InlineLinc in one of those tabletop enclosures?

[Traditore]

So, if you just want to control the heater via Insteon, but want to avoid local control altogether, why not use an InlineLinc in one of those tabletop enclosures?

Nah. If I'm in the playroom with the kids and it gets cold, I wanna be able to push that button! I'm too lazy to walk all the way back to the KPL. The OL is probably a good compromise.