Teken Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Yet another perfect example of why a cloud First vs Local First makes no sense to the consumer at large. This time next year the Logitech company will intentionally brick one of their products and force existing customer to shell out even more money!!
stusviews Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 Didn't Insteon have a TouchLinc and a SmartLinc that went in the same direction? Doesn't that also happen with cars and refrigerators and video cards, to name a few? But you make an important point. It's an unexpected area--for now--and fully supports your contention of not depending on the cloud which is becoming or has become ubiquitous. But, that's like saying don't depend on your phone (landline or cell). It's not gonna happen. We have four Harmony Hubs, two cell phones and a cellular network "landline. Also an assortment of Insteon Hubs that are cloud dependent. And doesn't the portal depend on the cloud, which is nothing more than networked computers storing what you place there? Face it Teken, we have no choice. We're a small group of voices hoping to be heard. "Alexa, can you hear me?"
Brian H Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 I have seen things like Apple and other manufactures stop supporting older models. With updates and the latest operating system. Not bricking them so they no longer function.
smokegrub Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 This is nothing new in the traditional business model. Companies routinely stop supporting older products, often to the chagrin of consumers. This seems to be especially true in the electronics industry. Smarthome has always delivered us products that are not upgradeable in firmware. Consider also the lousy PLM that just happens to be the heart of our home automation system. Even worse, consider how they refused to allow UDI to engineer their own PLM. It is what it is and I will smile and keep on keeping on.
asbril Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 This is nothing new in the traditional business model. Companies routinely stop supporting older products, often to the chagrin of consumers. This seems to be especially true in the electronics industry. Smarthome has always delivered us products that are not upgradeable in firmware. Consider also the lousy PLM that just happens to be the heart of our home automation system. Even worse, consider how they refused to allow UDI to engineer their own PLM. It is what it is and I will smile and keep on keeping on. I wanted to give your post a 'like" but it seems that I have given too many 'likes' in the past 24 hours. There should be no limit to 'likes' .... I know that there are many Insteon fans out there and I fully respect that. I have gone Zwave all the way. There are multiple manufacturers with price competition and more products. I hear that the newer PLM is of better quality but I dropped Insteon when my PLM went bust after 18 months.
larryllix Posted November 8, 2017 Posted November 8, 2017 I think some clarity needs to be added here. Cloud support for upgrades is one thing. This is not the topic in this thread. The topic is about cloud dependence and what seems to be the Harmony Lnk's weakness. IMHO Logictech sold these devices to their customers, and owes them lifetime cloud service to make the devices function until their: hardware breaks (check for solenoid operated hammers inside) hardware wears out (check for internally ignited magnesium/phosphorous) firmware becomes obsolete at the users discretion. Logictech dealer offers them a no cost substitution This should escalate into a class action suit to put a stop to this marketting scam coming to a theatre near you. Now I need to check to see if my refrigerator stopped functioning and all my food is going bad. I think it was winking at my router when my back was turned last night and they are both plugged into the same electrical panel.
Teken Posted November 8, 2017 Author Posted November 8, 2017 Didn't Insteon have a TouchLinc and a SmartLinc that went in the same direction? Doesn't that also happen with cars and refrigerators and video cards, to name a few? But you make an important point. It's an unexpected area--for now--and fully supports your contention of not depending on the cloud which is becoming or has become ubiquitous. But, that's like saying don't depend on your phone (landline or cell). It's not gonna happen. We have four Harmony Hubs, two cell phones and a cellular network "landline. Also an assortment of Insteon Hubs that are cloud dependent. And doesn't the portal depend on the cloud, which is nothing more than networked computers storing what you place there? Face it Teken, we have no choice. We're a small group of voices hoping to be heard. "Alexa, can you hear me?" Stu, Always appreciate the counter point and feedback by you. I'll play devils advocate on the topic at hand on several fronts. - In 2017 everything you buy should be *Buyer Beware* - Consumers need to read the TOS (Terms of Service) - Anything with a smart application / cloud hosted web portal is 50/50 proposition - The cloud is here to stay because companies have made their wares solely dependent upon it - There's no such as a lifetime guarantee on anything you buy and the warranty support assumes the company cares to do so Having said all of the above its clear that *Cloud Power* is and will remain well into the future of tomorrow. I am not anti-cloud by any means but don't believe something you own in your home should be 100% reliant and operational based on a Internet connection. Telling someone their toaster, fridge, sump, TV, washer, dryer, HVAC, won't operate at all makes zero sense. Yet as crazy the examples I have cited up above are ~ In time these appliances will become dependent on the happy cloud. I am one of those guys who love to see and obtain metrics in all things I own. I've never been a numbers guy but as time went on its something I really do enjoy seeing, tracking, and recalling. When companies like LG, GE, offer appliances that can tell you when the laundry is done to me that's useful and slick! When someone takes the time to really offer key metrics and offers insight about how the system is running. Such as how much that laundry cycle consumed in terms of energy and the direct out of pocket costs, that's meaningful! Even better is if the system would tell you how the hardware is performing from and if any future maintenance could be on the horizon. That offers so much value and insight it just makes sense . . . As of this writing nobody I am aware of offers a *Technician Mode* into their wares. If they do its locked out to the consumers which makes no sense because it could push the sales of those appliances over their competitors. Now, ideally this data could be accessed locally which is the preferred method but sometimes offering this (stored) data in the cloud makes sense. When the on board memory isn't large enough to store anything more than a day, week, cycle, etc. That is where *Cloud Power* makes sense in bolstering and enhancing the base system. It should not be the primary method to obtain or use said data or features of the system(s). Back on point: A 100% reliance and operations based on the Cloud is not acceptable. In the article listed above the worst case scenario is the customers systems should continue to operate as normal but not receive further technical support / updates to the platform. That is a good compromise and many industries do this (EOL) End Of Life process. Nobody can be expected to support something forever especially if its been out of production for eons! Anyways I appreciate everyone's insight. feedback, and counter views . . . It makes me think and perhaps (rarely) *reconsider* those views I hold now. Rock On . . .
lilyoyo1 Posted November 9, 2017 Posted November 9, 2017 This is why I try to avoid most hardware that is cloud based nor do I put as much emphasis on the few I do use. I home Google home and Alexa but those are supplemental to my system rather than basing my system on their use (I barely use mine). I like Harmony remotes but refuse to use their hub for this exact reason. While the RF portion should continue to function, I'd hate to find out the rest of my capabilities was lost because they felt like saving a buck. Outside of home and Alexa, the only cloud based item I use would be my nest protects. Anything else that attaches to the cloud is used for additional features not necessarily primary features.
Teken Posted November 9, 2017 Author Posted November 9, 2017 This is why I try to avoid most hardware that is cloud based nor do I put as much emphasis on the few I do use. I home Google home and Alexa but those are supplemental to my system rather than basing my system on their use (I barely use mine). I like Harmony remotes but refuse to use their hub for this exact reason. While the RF portion should continue to function, I'd hate to find out the rest of my capabilities was lost because they felt like saving a buck. Outside of home and Alexa, the only cloud based item I use would be my nest protects. Anything else that attaches to the cloud is used for additional features not necessarily primary features. Supplementing / enhancing is something I would buy in to. Being solely reliant on a 24.7.365 tethered connection to the cloud ~ not on your life. The major benefits in my view is having the ability to run a thin client environment and use that massive cloud power to its fullest. This helps reduce hardware costs and component count and normally would translate to longer service life. Having the ability to update a system remotely is very advantage which also allows ease of trouble shooting when required. Obviously the whole security & privacy is something that needs to addressed and balanced found. At this juncture the training wheels are still on the basic principle of the cloud topology for many companies. As stated in past threads the government has decided to wade into mandatory IoT security measures and standards. I'm not a fan of government intervention but if it takes them to lead the charge to force every vendor to take security & privacy seriously ~ I'm all for it!! I am confident in saying we shall see many more products and services in the next few months, years that will be abandoned / terminated.
Xathros Posted November 10, 2017 Posted November 10, 2017 UPDATE: http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/11/10/logitech-will-offer-all-harmony-link-owners-a-free-upgrade-to-its-ios-connected-harmony-hub Logitech steps up and replaces soon to be bricked devices with Harmony Hub at no cost. -Xathros
Teken Posted November 10, 2017 Author Posted November 10, 2017 UPDATE: http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/11/10/logitech-will-offer-all-harmony-link-owners-a-free-upgrade-to-its-ios-connected-harmony-hub Logitech steps up and replaces soon to be bricked devices with Harmony Hub at no cost. -Xathros And who said Public Shaming didn't work! Thanks for that follow up Xathros that is a win for the little guy!
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