Lamplincs Suddenly Unreliable

[GTCJ]

Whole house Insteon installation with ISY994i v.4.6.2.  House and all wire devices were new in 2013.  I have a box of older lamplincs (all version 4.X)  that come out at Christmas time for indoor decorations.  This year, none of the lamplincs will respond to an "ON" command.  Most will respond to a "FAST ON" and all will respond to off.

 

After sending an "ON", from admin console current state will appear to be on, but if you query, it will be off.

 

Seems odd that they would all fail at the same time. 

 

 

[GTCJ]

Also, none of these devices are in any scenes yet and the on levels are typically set for 80 or 50%

[paulbates]

Were these "disabled" for the winter and subsequently re-enabled now? I disable the older lamplincs I put away with the Christmas decorations till the next year.

 

Maybe factory reset one and re-test to see if that helps.

 

Paul

[Goose66]

And delete and re-add to the ISY with "Remove existing lincs." Make sure the plug they are in when you do the re-adding and putting them in scenes has really good communication with the ISY, and then you can move them to there final operational location afterwards.

 

I will say I have trouble with my On/Off modules and ApplianceLincs pulled out for Christmas lights every year, and it also seems they cause problems with the other Insteon devices. I have tried to migrate them all to the latest dual-band modules, but there are still 4 or 5 legacy modules in the mix.

[GTCJ]

Yes they were disabled and I have done factory reset on about 10 without any improvement.  I also just noticed that if I "fast on" and the device turns on and the press "ON", the device turns off.

I haven't tried delete and re add but will do so now.

[GTCJ]

Have done factory reset, deleted and re-linked 7 of about 20 lamplincs.  None seem to work although they are all visible to ISY.  Same symptoms, "ON" appears to be on, query finds it to be off.

[IndyMike]

The fact that "fast on" functions makes it sound like you may have a problem with the device ramp rate.  Check to make sure it isn't set to something very long - making the device seem like it is not responding to the "on" command.

[GTCJ]

Ramp rate is 4.5 seconds on all of these modules.  There are 19 modules that were stored since last Christmas and this year not one works.  Remainder of system is working fine, just not my seasonals.

[smokegrub]

I activated a bunch of LampLincs recently for Christmas. They are all part of the same scene. I have always found that one or more can be problematic therefore I programmed two on commands separated by 3 seconds and did the same for off commands. Only rarely will one of the devices fail to respond. I am at a loss to suggest what to do. Have you tried placing them in the scene and testing one at a time?

[lilyoyo1]

How did you perform the factory reset on your modules? Anytime I hear about multiple devices with the same exact issues leads me to believe that there is something external causing issues rather than the device itself.

 

The fact that they are responding to the fast on command shows that the lamplimcs are working. It sounds like something possibly made them revert to 0% (or off) when turned on (since they come on with fast on).

 

While me asking about the reset may sound trivial many times a reset has been done improperly which means the issue still exists. When doing the reset, make sure the buzzing stops before letting go out the set button.

[GTCJ]

As far as the factory reset I unplugged them from the receptacle, then plugged back in while holding the set button on the side for 10 seconds.  These are old enough that they do not beep, buzz or give any audible indication of action.

 

There are 19 lamplincs that I used at Christmas last year, stored them until last week and all have the same lack of functionality.  I do not believe that the modules all failed simultaneously.  The rest of the system is working fine.  I have over 300 devices in the system - only the seasonals are problematic.

[lilyoyo1]

Reading your symptoms amd the fact that there are 19 with the same exact issue leads me to believe that they are set to be off. (Double tap works and turning on turns them off).

 

Delete them from the ISY, factory reset omce more and then re-add them. This way they are being added with a clean slate. Then you can set the on levels as well as ramp rate.

[giomania]

I have been experiencing Lamplinc communication issues (all dual-band versions) in the last month but they are all devices that have continually been in service. My Insteon setup--including the Lamplincs--has been rock solid otherwise.

 

When I saw the thread title I was thinking: "Hey, someone else has the same issue, so maybe it's not just me?"

 

...but I guess not.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stusviews]

Main concern, what are the loads? As important; does the UI match the firmware version?

[GTCJ]

The loads are typical Christmas decorations and lighting.  75 watts or less incandescent or LED equivalents.  Same loads as the last 10 years.  I don't understand the "does the UI match the firmware version" question.  Same ISY994I for the last 4 years.

[stusviews]

There are no longer "typical" lights. However, as incandescent bulbs age, they usually glow a bit less bright. That has no effect on HA devices. As LED and CFL bulbs age, they often add "noise" to the powerline. That noise can be troublesome to HA devices. An easy check is to use an all incandescent load as a check. If the problem remains, then it's likely the device.

 

But if communication improves, then the load is the culprit.

 

If you've ever updated the ISY (e.g., automatic update), then you're firmware and UI may not match and it the likely source of the errant behavior you're seeing. If that's the case, then the cure is simply to update them so that they're identical. Help, About will show the versions.

[GTCJ]

 UI and firmware both 4.6.2.

 

The failure to turn the affected devices on occurs with and without a load.  If a load is attached it is obvious.  If no load is attached and an "ON" command is sent from ISY, it shows as "ON".  But if you query, it shows "OFF."

 

When i said typical what I am  describing is a group of Dept 56 Christmas Village structures that are illuminated with a C7 incandescent light bulbs..  They are clustered in groups of 6 - 8 structures so a load of 40 - 60 watts incandescent for each cluster. 

 

My outdoor stuff is all LED and controlled with hardwired insteon on/off receptacles.  Have never had any issues with that.      

 

The loads I am attempting to control with my "seasonal" (Thanksgiving - New Years) lamplincs, work fine with lamplincs that are in service year  round.

 

Over 300 devices in this house, system is otherwise reliable.  

[stusviews]

You may have approached the PLMs limit of 1,000 links. Anything more than 900 can be a problem. What's your PLM link count. It's best to do it at a quiet time, traffic can change the count. Try three or more times, each count will differ, but they should be close.

[GTCJ]

Well I think you are on to something here.  First pass running the PLM links table shows a count of 2665.  Second was 938.  Third 2158. 

[stusviews]

With 300 device, you're apt to have lots and lots of links. You may need to add a second ISY. You'd need to ensure that no scenes or programs access any device on the other ISY.

 

If you have scenes that include many devices such as an All Off or All on, then you can reduce the link count by using a program instead of scenes. The devices will respond sequentially instead of concurrently. I actually got to like that approach with the devices furthest away turning off first, moving toward where I execute the command (KPL button).

 

Bit with the number od devices you have, the second solution may only serve to buy you some more time before you'll need a 2^nd ISY and PLM).

[GTCJ]

Thanks to all for the help, questions and suggestions.

 

I spent some time today inventorying devices, links and scenes.  Have been able to dissolve many and may be able to get to a reasonable number.

 

Stusviews discussed adding a second ISY and PLM.

 

Interesting idea.  I'm trying to imagine how I would do that.  Two level home.  1 per level?  I assume one cannot reference the other in terms of programs and scenes.

[smokegrub]

Stu: That was a great catch. The number of links is a limitation i had long since forgotten.

[GTCJ]

After deleting a few hundred links associated with scenes, I decided to re-run to PLM links table this morning.  It is up to 5000 and still counting.  I have cleared the cache.

 

It is possible that the links are not being removed from the PLM when a scene is deleted or they are somehow duplicating themselves.  I have had to stop the count - there is no way it could be legit.

[Brian H]

Look at this wiki entry.

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Tools_Menu

On the PLM Link Tables section.

If you look at the links information. Any one starting with a 02 or 22 is a deleted link. That I believe should be over written at some point.

I believe if you do a restore modem on the PLM. The table is rewritten with all the deleted links not put  back.

[GTCJ]

Thank you.  I hadn't seen that.  I did reset the PLM earlier today and now it only list 61 links.