Motion Sensor Heartbeat?

[elionce]

Has anyone come up with a clever way to implement a "heartbeat" for Insteon motion sensors, to notify if a battery has died? Preferably which doesn't require them to actually be motion-activated with any regularity. i.e. maybe like send them a command, then see if they respond...?

[MWareman]

Has anyone come up with a clever way to implement a "heartbeat" for Insteon motion sensors, to notify if a battery has died? Preferably which doesn't require them to actually be motion-activated with any regularity. i.e. maybe like send them a command, then see if they respond...?

I use dusk/dawn triggers from the motion sensor and have each dusk or dawn trigger start/reset a 24 hour timer. If the sensor battery dies I get an alert once the 24 hours expires.

[larryllix]

I tried MWareman's (above) method also, along with a few other techniques. Now when they stop working I replace the batteries. They usually start to multiple flash the LED on the front when they see motion. Saved a few dozen programs I record the low batt signal in a variable list in case I miss the dying process while away but they don't all report in properly or consistently.

[elionce]

2 hours ago, MWareman said:

 

I use dusk/dawn triggers from the motion sensor and have each dusk or dawn trigger start/reset a 24 hour timer. If the sensor battery dies I get an alert once the 24 hours expires.

 

Oh nice, that's clever  Never used that trigger. 

So it would be:

Program 1:

IF
  Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched off
THEN
  sSensorBatteryOK = 1
  Wait 24 hours
  sSensorBatteryOK = 0

Program 2:

IF
  Time is 12:00
  AND sSensorBatteryOK is not 1
THEN
  //notify

?

 

[MWareman]

Oh nice, that's clever  Never used that trigger. 
So it would be:

Program 1:

IF Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched on OR Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched offTHEN sSensorBatteryOK = 1 Wait 24 hours sSensorBatteryOK = 0

Program 2:

IF Time is 12:00 AND sSensorBatteryOK is not 1THEN //notify

?
 

That should work.

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, metal450 said:

Oh nice, that's clever  Never used that trigger. 

So it would be:

Program 1:

IF
  Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched off
THEN
  sSensorBatteryOK = 1
  Wait 24 hours
  sSensorBatteryOK = 0

Program 2:

IF
  Time is 12:00
  AND sSensorBatteryOK is not 1
THEN
  //notify

?

 

State variables would not be needed there. Program2's "Time is 12:00" will always render False except when it does it.

[Teken]

13 hours ago, metal450 said:

Has anyone come up with a clever way to implement a "heartbeat" for Insteon motion sensors, to notify if a battery has died? Preferably which doesn't require them to actually be motion-activated with any regularity. i.e. maybe like send them a command, then see if they respond...?

Nobody has asked so I will . . . Does the low battery alert not come in or operate as expected??

[KeviNH]

17 minutes ago, Teken said:

Nobody has asked so I will . . . Does the low battery alert not come in or operate as expected??

With my original Insteon MS, I get the low battery alert about 3 months before the battery is truly dead.

[elionce]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

State variables would not be needed there.

So you've formatted the overall program differently, without using state variables? I'm not seeing how it could work without them - could you indicate how you've implemented it?

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

Program2's "Time is 12:00" will always render False except when it does it.

...Sorry, I don't understand what this means: "except when it does it"...

[larryllix]

40 minutes ago, metal450 said:

So you've formatted the overall program differently, without using state variables? I'm not seeing how it could work without them - could you indicate how you've implemented it?

...Sorry, I don't understand what this means: "except when it does it"...

No program changes at all. I just save my stat variables for when I really need them as the ISY trigger engine is going to evaluate them every time even when they can never trigger a program. That may slow down the ISY logic engine. Use Integer variables whenever possible like this situation.

First I assumed you are using State variable due the small "s" at the beginning of the names.

In your program 2 the line with the "time is 12:00"

- is only true at exactly 12:00
- is only true when ISY's time clock detects it as a trigger (at 12:00)
- any other time or reason the ISY trigger engine is evaluating this If Section  program logic  it will be False.

When you AND the time line with any other logic, it doesn't matter what the logic evaluates to, the "time is 12:00" will be False and Else will run.
This means when the State variable changes value,  the ISY engine will evaluate the whole If section and always find False, running else.

This is the reason a State variable is not required for this logic. State variable can trigger logic evaluation. Integer variables do not.

 

Allow me to give another more visual example

If
....time is 12:00
....AND
....time is 12:30
Then
.... when will this ever happen?
Else
....this will execute at 12:00 and 12:30 every day.

 

Making sense?

 

 

[elionce]

29 minutes ago, larryllix said:

No program changes at all. I just save my stat variables for when I really need them as the ISY trigger engine is going to evaluate them every time even when they can never trigger a program. That may slow down the ISY logic engine. Use Integer variables whenever possible like this situation.

Oooh - you meant just use integer variables rather than state variables, not "it doesn't need variables at all." Got it, totally right.  I processed your sentence as meaning "you don't need (state) variables"...rather than "you don't need state variables", hehe

[elionce]

Apparently one of the sensors sometimes misses the Dusk.Dawn switch.  It seems random - it'll work for a few days, then suddenly report that it's dead, then it'll come back up again.  I think a slightly better Program 1 would be:

IF
  Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched off
  OR Control Sensor-Sensor is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Sensor is switched off
THEN
  sSensorBatteryOK = 1
  Wait 24 hours
  sSensorBatteryOK = 0

...Because obviously if they're sensing motion, they're not dead - so any of those 4 activities should be able to extend the 24 hour clock

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, metal450 said:

Apparently one of the sensors sometimes misses the Dusk.Dawn switch.  It seems random - it'll work for a few days, then suddenly report that it's dead, then it'll come back up again.  I think a slightly better Program 1 would be:

IF
  Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Dusk.Dawn is switched off
  OR Control Sensor-Sensor is switched on
  OR Control Sensor-Sensor is switched off
THEN
  sSensorBatteryOK = 1
  Wait 24 hours
  sSensorBatteryOK = 0

...Because obviously if they're sensing motion, they're not dead - so any of those 4 activities should be able to extend the 24 hour clock

Once they get flaky the batteries need replacing anyway. I gave up on detecting the batteries are low and usually just watch for the multipe flashing LED or jusr lack of function now. I still record and keep a list of reported low batteries in a variable though, for whan I get a round tuit.

[paulbates]

14 minutes ago, larryllix said:

......I gave up on detecting the batteries are low ...

Same here. I manage to a schedule and not the notification... it avoids the low battery side effects for the original MSs. I have a list for all my battery based thingys (Insteon, Venstar, Simplisafe Alarm system) and review it in the spring and fall. I have the original model MSs and replace the batteries twice a year on a schedule...  End of April and October. The door sensors usually go 2 years but I aim for 1 1/2 years and replace.

I do have programs to send me a notification for the MS and open/close sensors, but they rarely get to that point. The MSs rarely send a battery low notification--  when its cold in the middle of winter.. but it bounces back when it warms back up. As they are outside I let it go 

Paul

[elionce]

Bummer they're so flaky.  I actually didn't even realize they have a "low battery" signal - I just figured a program would be handy to say "it's no longer working," rather than having to *ever* walk around & check everything, or change it prematurely. But...maybe just using motion sensing event in addition to Dusk.Dawn will make the difference. Or maybe I could increase the time threshold to 48 hours before it notifies.  Time will tell, the new experiment starts now