Cannot determine Insteon Engine - when linking a 2842-222 motion sensor

[JT76]

First time writing, been reading for a few years.

The "Cannot determine Insteon Engine" error appears when trying to (re) link my motion sensor.  Has anyone got an idea what this would be other than not being in linking mode or not being close enough to a dual-band module?

Relevant specs:

ISY-994i running 4.6.2 firmware/UI

Motion Sensor 2842-222 (REV 2.4)... Yes this is one of the older sensors, not the new ones that we're all waiting for V5 to support.  It has a fresh battery.  Jumpers 1-4 are off; jumper 5 is on. (On as in shorting the two pins, as opposed to off where the shunt is hanging on the bottom pin only.)

Steps:

I'm using the Link Management, Link a Sensor, Motion Sensor dialog box and entering the address xx.xx.xx, a name/description and leaving the remove existing links option selected. Before clicking ok to the dialog I hold the set button for about 5 seconds until I get the slow/single blinking LED and then I tap it again to get it into the faster/double blinking LED state.  After hitting ok, the initialization status bar crawls to about 7% at which time the error message appears.

I've tried this numerous times, from different locations in the house, but I don't expect that to make much of a difference as I have a over well over 20 dual band devices throughout my home.  The sensor was actually in my configuration for some time, but after replacing the battery it was acting odd (not reporting correct status) so I decided to remove it from all scenes and remove the device itself from the configuration before doing a factory reset on the device and starting out fresh.

I suppose it's possible that my sensor has lost its mind, but it's behaving normally other than the failure to link.

 

 

[Brian H]

Hold the Set button until the LED flashes.  Don't tap it again for fast flash.

If you have a Plus model. Make sure the automatic writes to battery operated devices is enabled.

 

[Techman]

"Cannot determine Insteon Engine " usually indicates a communications problem between the device and the PLM

Try moving the motion sensor next to the PLM and then try linking it.

[JT76]

Ok, I took the advice of Brian H and Techman (thanks for the suggestions btw), but still getting the same error.

I put the motion sensor in the slow/single blinking state and I placed it within 3 feet of my PLM (and of a nearby OutletLinc) but the same message appears.

I've retried this more than once and occasionally the status bar continues past the 7% mark after the error message appears.  The status bar does eventually stop; in one case when a separate error pops up when it reports a different device (mini remote switch) is not reachable.  This may be an unrelated event.

I'll probably try another factory reset and then a final round of trials before throwing it in scrap pile and buying a new one.  If anyone has any other suggestions, I'd certainly be willing to try.

Brian H, what are you referring to by the "Plus model", the sensor or the ISY?

 

[paulbates]

I'd have similar problems with them especially when they are installed outside in the open. Sometimes, multiple factory resets did the job and they could continue to be used. Sometimes they went to "the box".

[Brian H]

ISY994i Plus.

It has the ability to turn off and on automatic writes to battery operated module,  automatic writes to all modules and a larger Link Database.

 

[JT76]

Giving this another shot before the motion sensor ends up in the electronics scrap heap.

Brian H, I have an ISY994i.  I can't even find a reference to the "Plus" model on the UDI site.  Perhaps you're referring to the "Pro" but I don't have that.

As paulbates describes, I've attempted multiple factory resets and get the same results each time.

Since my last post, I have upgraded my controller (firmware/UI) to v.4.7.3, but I didn't expect that to make a difference.

 

If anyone has any new ideas, I'd appreciate them.  I suppose my next step is to consider going to v.5 beta and buying one of the new motion sensors.

[dbuss]

6 minutes ago, JT76 said:

Giving this another shot before the motion sensor ends up in the electronics scrap heap.

Brian H, I have an ISY994i.  I can't even find a reference to the "Plus" model on the UDI site.  Perhaps you're referring to the "Pro" but I don't have that.

As paulbates describes, I've attempted multiple factory resets and get the same results each time.

Since my last post, I have upgraded my controller (firmware/UI) to v.4.7.3, but I didn't expect that to make a difference.

 

If anyone has any new ideas, I'd appreciate them.  I suppose my next step is to consider going to v.5 beta and buying one of the new motion sensors.

This is probably not your situation. However, I have had some devices that the quality of the printing of the address characters was such that it was easy to confuse the correct character for that of another.

[paulbates]

The only other idea is to take the battery out and remove J5 and let it sit for 5 minutes to be sure its fully dead..push the set button several times to fully discharge it. Then add the battery while holding the set button and restart into a factory reset. Then add j5, pull the battery, wait 30 seconds and put the battery back in... then set mode and try again.

If that doesn't work, get some safety glasses and an aluminum softball bat....

Paul

[Techman]

4 hours ago, JT76 said:

Giving this another shot before the motion sensor ends up in the electronics scrap heap.

Brian H, I have an ISY994i.  I can't even find a reference to the "Plus" model on the UDI site.  Perhaps you're referring to the "Pro" but I don't have that.

As paulbates describes, I've attempted multiple factory resets and get the same results each time.

Since my last post, I have upgraded my controller (firmware/UI) to v.4.7.3, but I didn't expect that to make a difference.

 

If anyone has any new ideas, I'd appreciate them.  I suppose my next step is to consider going to v.5 beta and buying one of the new motion sensors.

 Did you install the new ISY Launcher?

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#Installing_the_Admin_Console_Icon_on_Your_Desktop

[JT76]

Thanks all for the quick replies.

The hex address is easy to read; no issues there.

I already have the new ISY Launcher.  Annoyed by the extra step to launch the Admin console, but [pause] I'm over it.

Paulbates, I tried your instructions but same results as before.  I'll resist the urge to go Office Space on this thing and maybe consider pulling my old Insteon hub out of the closet and see if it can communicate with sensor.  Very unlikely to work, I know.

 

Off topic, but curious what the overall reports are on v.5 and the new motion sensors.

[paulbates]

What I learned about these after burning through a few is that that area between the  lens and bezel upfront is poorly sealed making them bad for being exposed out of doors (as opposed to being covered). After a few hard rains, I'd get weird behavior including what you'r reporting. The original white battery pad on the door would be icky black from mold, because water was coming in through the bezel.

3 years ago I started sealing the left, right and bottom seams with a bead of superglue. I have 3 of these outside in the open and they've been fine ever since, and the battery pads remain white.  I'm going to hunt down some of the originals for additional stock.

Paul

[Brian H]

I am sorry for the incorrect information in my post.

You will not  find it. As I  had a BIG brain fade. PRO not PLUS.

[junkycosmos]

did you sort this out?

Anyone know the min level of ISY firmware for motion sensor II (2844-222) to work ?

[JT76]

No, I never got my older motion sensor to connect to ISY again.  Sucks, b/c I know it worked just a few months ago.  Mine wasn't even exposed to the outdoors; it was in my garage, so the worst it experienced was 30-something degrees in the winter.

I think you have to be running v.5 to use the new motion sensors.  Search elsewhere on the forum to be certain, but I'm confident that's the case.  I'm wary of going to beta software, but I may take the plunge just so I can have the functionality again.

[Bumbershoot]

5 hours ago, junkycosmos said:

Anyone know the min level of ISY firmware for motion sensor II (2844-222) to work ?

The last fix for these was in 5.0.13A.  The current beta is 5.0.13D.

[Techman]

The new motion sensors will work with 4.7.3, but only the motion node which defaults to 30 seconds. No options are configurable. In the 5.x.x. firmware release more options are available.

 

[MarkmAZ]

I know this post has been hanging around for a few months but going back to the original idea of the printed code, I thought the same thing - I can read a code.   Turned out the letter B looked like an 8 on the label.  I discovered this when I was able to connect the troubled device to the Insteon hub through the automatic device discovery process but unable to connect to the 994i ISY.  I corrected the ID and it connected with no engine error.  

It seems for my hiccups, (not just this one) that an ID error stalls at 7% when no connection is established. Communication interference issues went beyond the 7% stall point.  

[smokegrub]

The easy confusion between "B" or "8" has caused we lost time more than once!

[Brian H]

I can second that. I too have read the ID incorrectly.

[MSpitzer]

Have you guys gotten this to work?  I automatically discovered the motion sensor, but I got an "Unsupported Device: 16.22" message.

The device was added to console, but there are no options available...

[Brian H]

What firmware is in your ISY994i?

It is not totally supported with 4.7.3. It is in the Beta 5.0.14.

[Techman]

4 hours ago, Reztips said:

Have you guys gotten this to work?  I automatically discovered the motion sensor, but I got an "Unsupported Device: 16.22" message.

The device was added to console, but there are no options available...

If you're running 4.7.3 you should add it to the ISY as the (older motion sensor) 2842-222.  The 4.7.3  firmware only supports the motion node with a 30 second timeout, no other options.  The 5.0.14 firmware supports the sensor with options.

[MSpitzer]

Thanks Techman.  I'm actually running 5.0.14 and found the option to add the motion sensor in the dashboard.  It does not exist in the admin console.  Are you seeing the same?

However, I still don't see any of the options available. 

[notta3d]

I don't mean to jack the thread, but I my new-ish hidden door sensors 2845-222 v.00 are not being recognized. I bought these back in June because they were on sale and let them sit in a box. Tonight I tried to install one on my front door. I tried both methods of Link a Sensor -> Hidden Door Sensor and Start Linking but the devices are not being found. The PLM was bought in July 2017 after my first one died. I have the ISY 994i/IR Pro Firmware amd UI both running 4.7.3. I get the "cannot determine the Insteon Engine" error. I also get the "following devices could not be added - Insteon Hidden Door Sensor v.00 - Cannot determine device link table address". I have tried 2 brand new sensors with the same result. The rest of the devices in the house seem to be working fine. I just can't add these devices. Also tried adding while having the sensor right next to the modem but same thing.

[EDIT]

Just reset one of the sensors and still receiving "cannot determine device link table address" when trying to add. Restarted both the PLM and the ISY but same result.

[EDIT]

You can disregard. I took my laptop and one of sensors down by the PLM and the ISY. Added the device, yet again, but this time it immediately recognized it. Before I was trying from my second floor thinking it has a range of 150 ft. Should be no problem I thought. Well I guess it does matter.