Why does my ISY hate me? Does yours hate you?

[csetter911]

Hi Guys,

 

I have a ISY-26 and was wondering if you could give me your opinion. For over a year I have found that whenever I try to do just about anything with my ISY-26 it becomes a major headache. I find myself resetting the ISY a couple times, deleting the Java files repeatedly, restoring devices, factory resetting devices, etc. everytime I try to make the simplest change or program.

 

I try to keep up with all of the upgrades (although I do not remember a time when anything was ever easy with the device). I have approximately 130 insteon devices (ranging from motion detectors to keypad lincs) and around 70 scenes. I run only about 20 programs (I would run many more if I could ever get them to work). I do appear to have plenty of memory left over (and like I said, this has always been a problem).

 

I have filterlincs all plugged into the tvs, plenty of access points, etc.

 

Is it possible that some people make a change to a scene or a program... and ISY/Insteon simply works everytime?? I don't mean this to sound sarcastic at all... I ask b/c mine almost never does without having to do some type of power cycle.

 

When I finally get it working... it works great. But getting 1 simple program to work takes me literally 10 hours of "resetting this..." and "clearing that..." (this especially true when I have to start factory resetting stuff... and then reprogramming).

 

Basically... is the ISY a rather sensitive device that requires all of the Insteon devices to work 100% defect free? Or do you guys think I might have a defective unit? I am just trying to get a sense of everyone else's day-to-day experience with the ISY.

 

Thanks for your time

 

CJ

[MikeB]

Hi CJ -

 

What kind of problems do you have? Can you give any specifics?

 

One common source of problems is firewall / anti-virus software. Try disabling whatever you're running to see if it helps next time you need to make a change.

[csetter911]

Hi CJ -

 

What kind of problems do you have? Can you give any specifics?

 

One common source of problems is firewall / anti-virus software. Try disabling whatever you're running to see if it helps next time you need to make a change.

 

Hi Mike,

 

I resolved my firewall/antivirus problem over a year ago. I can (typically) access my ISY. I can also typically make changes to my ISY... but with every change that i try to make... something else always seems to stop working. It just seems like an endless uphill battle.

 

I am simply curious if other have the same "on-going struggle" issues I experience or if perhaps i am in the minority. I have gotten to the point that I dont even want to touch my ISY because it seems more unstable then a beta version of windows.

 

For example yesterday I attempted to add a light to a scene. I add the light, but when I go to adjust the ramp rates the ISY hangs up. I power cycle the ISY and now the trigger doesnt seem to work for the scene. I decide to restore my ISY and install the latest upgrade. So I...

 

- Installed upgrade

- That made my motion detectors show up as "unsupported devices"

- Factory reset all my motion detectors (since restoring them did not work)

- Had to update all of my motion detector programs

- Then a "motion off" button on my KPL stopped working as a result

- KPL restore did not work

- Had to factory reset my KPL

- Had to then reprogram all my other KPL buttons

- etc.

- fast forward 18 hours and I finally get that one light added to the scene

 

I run into a large drawn-out problem every time I mess with the ISY (from anyone of my 3 computers). I am not looking for a "solution" to a single problem, I have trouble shooted my way for over a year (after-all it was a battle for me to just get the 70 scenes working). I have even gone as far to re-do my entire ISY.

 

No offense, but I find myself asking how this product can have such great reviews. That is why I asked... I thought perhaps I was just in the minority.

 

If everyone else has a (for the most part) trouble-free ISY experience, I would gladly upgrade. But if my experience is very common, I would rather save my sanity at this point

 

All i'm trying to figure out is when the "average joe" adds a device, or modifies a scene, or does an upgrade, etc to his ISY... how often does something go wrong with the ISY? 1% of the time? 25%? 50%?

 

 

 

CJ

 

 

p.s. I hope that this does not come across as rude... I really do appreciate the excellent support you guys provide. But I've spent literally hundreds of hours struggling with the Insteon/ISY combo in a hundred different ways. Does my "problem" seem normal or rare?

[MikeB]

Hi CJ -

 

I think it depends on what you do. In your example above, you certainly shouldn't have to upgrade the firmware or even reboot the ISY to adjust the ramp rate on a device. I'm curious why you weren't able to do that. I wonder if you had close the Admin Console and/or browsers down and restarted if it would have then adjusted the ramp rates for you.

 

The rest of your issues seem to have resulted from the firmware update. We do add/change a lot of functionality between some firmware releases - sometimes that can affect existing programming, but usually not.

 

It seems as though all your issue stemmed from the Motion Sensor. The first support for the Motion Sensor was introduced in a beta firmware release. We added support quickly because so many users requested it. Without going back and looking at firmware history, I can tell you that we had to change how we supported the Motion Sensor in the next firmware release, and unfortunately that meant that users who had already installed a Motion Sensor had to remove and re-add them after upgrading their firmware.

 

I can say that this is a rarity - in most cases you don't have to remove and re-add a device due to a firmware update, but the Motion Sensor was an exception.

[csetter911]

In regards to your browser question... no, I normally have to pull the plug on the ISY... restarting the browser (and clearing Java) does not normally fix it.

 

I bet today I have reset my ISY about 15 times.

 

The point is... I have WAY to many problems with this thing to post on this forum.

 

I understand upgrading can cause trouble... but this thing is useless since I can't even make minor modifications. This isn't a "user" issue, this is a contant "locking-up" issue. In fact I just got done rebooting my ISY 3 times in a row to make it work again.

 

When I finally got it back up the KPL that i just got done totally reprogramming after a factory reset shows approximately 60 "missing this record" and "record mismatch" errors in the diagnostic comparison.

 

How do you guys handle upgrades? Can it be returned if I still have problems? Can me and my baseball bat get a little "pay back" time with the ISY-26 before we send it in? (that was a joke... unless I really can... because I would really love to).

 

Thanks,

 

CJ

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Mr. Setter,

 

I do apologize for the inconvenience. It's possible that you have defective unit and we'll replace it with no questions asked. This said, however, I think there are other underlying issues that have to be resolved since the next one might exhibit the same exact issues. As such, if possible, it would be great if we can login to your system remotely and see what's causing all these problems. We also received your email and I am going to reply back to you to schedule a call for Sunday or Monday.

 

Again, in case we decide it's ISY, you will get a replacement unit with no questions asked.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

In regards to your browser question... no, I normally have to pull the plug on the ISY... restarting the browser (and clearing Java) does not normally fix it.

 

I bet today I have reset my ISY about 15 times.

 

The point is... I have WAY to many problems with this thing to post on this forum.

 

I understand upgrading can cause trouble... but this thing is useless since I can't even make minor modifications. This isn't a "user" issue, this is a contant "locking-up" issue. In fact I just got done rebooting my ISY 3 times in a row to make it work again.

 

When I finally got it back up the KPL that i just got done totally reprogramming after a factory reset shows approximately 60 "missing this record" and "record mismatch" errors in the diagnostic comparison.

 

How do you guys handle upgrades? Can it be returned if I still have problems? Can me and my baseball bat get a little "pay back" time with the ISY-26 before we send it in? (that was a joke... unless I really can... because I would really love to).

 

Thanks,

 

CJ

[oberkc]

I have problems, but they are with communication. ISY, for me, works without any of the issues you describe. My installation is not as large, but I have X-10 motion sensors, about 10 KPLs, switchlinks, togglelinks, numerous modules, X-10 modules for holiday lights, about 10 scenes, and about 10 programs. I have performed about a half dozen software updates. All have gone off without issue. Changes to programs or scenes go without problem, except when the communication bug hits (which is intermittent). I have always assumed that this was normal.

[NewTech]

In regards to your browser question... no, I normally have to pull the plug on the ISY... restarting the browser (and clearing Java) does not normally fix it.

 

I bet today I have reset my ISY about 15 times.

 

The point is... I have WAY to many problems with this thing to post on this forum.

 

I understand upgrading can cause trouble... but this thing is useless since I can't even make minor modifications. This isn't a "user" issue, this is a contant "locking-up" issue. In fact I just got done rebooting my ISY 3 times in a row to make it work again.

 

When I finally got it back up the KPL that i just got done totally reprogramming after a factory reset shows approximately 60 "missing this record" and "record mismatch" errors in the diagnostic comparison.

 

How do you guys handle upgrades? Can it be returned if I still have problems? Can me and my baseball bat get a little "pay back" time with the ISY-26 before we send it in? (that was a joke... unless I really can... because I would really love to).

 

Thanks,

 

CJ

 

These problems sound a lot like mine! Here is a link to my posts: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=2636

 

I can say that the folks at UD have bent over backwards to resolve this problem and I have faith that it will be resolved with my replacement ISY and a new PLM.

[IndyMike]

Hello CJ,

 

To answer your question below - Yes, I have an ISY-26 that simply works every time. I also have an advantage - I originally ran the house on X10 (still have 20+ devices) and got things where they were 90%+ reliable. With the ISY installed, Insteon is near 100% (nothing is 100%).

 

One observation - your system sounds like it is reliable until you attempt to make programming changes to a device. You also have problems running programs. Both of these sound like communication issues between the PLM and your devices.

 

Have a look at the placement of your PLM:

1) Is it on a GFI or Arc-fault circuit? I have some GFI outlets in my home that attenuate X10/Insteon by a factor of 20.

2) Do you have a noise source/attenuator on the circuit between the PLM and your breaker panel? You indicated that you have a number of filterlincs, but it only takes one device (in the wrong location) to cause a problem.

 

If you haven't already, you can try placing a Accesspoint near the PLM. If this works, I would still investigate the circuit to see what is interfering with the signal.

 

IM

 

Hi Guys,

I have filterlincs all plugged into the tvs, plenty of access points, etc.

 

Is it possible that some people make a change to a scene or a program... and ISY/Insteon simply works everytime?? I don't mean this to sound sarcastic at all... I ask b/c mine almost never does without having to do some type of power cycle.

 

When I finally get it working... it works great. But getting 1 simple program to work takes me literally 10 hours of "resetting this..." and "clearing that..." (this especially true when I have to start factory resetting stuff... and then reprogramming).

[frustratednon-geek]

I completely get what you're talking about, although I would NEVER have the patience to put up with what you have been through. I literally pounded my fist on the keyboard so hard this evening that I bent the printed circuit board. I thought about kicking my cat that was screeching at me but I regained my composure just in time. All those resets, freezes, re-linking, etc. I'd be in the psych ward by now...

 

I have found the ISY to be the single most frustrating piece of equipment I've ever owned or operated. I will say that it does seem to work well once everything is up and running, and the service and support is beyond excellent. The UD's attitude and demeanor and willingness to help somehow makes up for all the instability and problems, although it doesn't prevent me from occasionally damaging equipment...

 

I too cringe every time I need to make a change or add a device. Just when you think it's going to be a simple modification, you find yourself 12 hours later at 3:00 AM (like me right now) delerious and pissed off and ready to make a boat anchor out of that little box. I love the sledgehammer bit. I am SO RIGHT THERE WITH YOU my friend!

 

In defense of UD, I will say they're dealing with a difficult set of circumstances. Not only do they have a moving target with the device manufacturer's hardware/software changes and numerous xxlinc versions and features, not all of which play well with others. But then they're also working against the usual Windows SNAFU of antivirus, firewall, operating system differences, etc. across all the PC manufacturers' peculiarities.

 

If you think about the total market footprint for a device like this and then consider the time and resources it must have taken to get the ISY and admin console up and running as good as it is, it's actually a small miracle. I suspect many engineers at larger companies with far greater resources have produced far less impressive results than these...

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello frustratednon-geek,

 

I think everyone would feel the same as you do when having to work on something so simple for 12 hours. From what I gather, you have recently moved your PLM. The location of PLM, in relationship with your other devices, is very important. Also, if your PLM is plugged into the same outlet as a router, a computer monitor, your home entertainment system, phone battery charger, etc. you will experience communications errors to no end.

 

Please note that when confronted with communications errors, Restoring Devices or PLM - in all likelihood - will make the problems worse: ISY won't be able to program the devices correctly and thus you will have other unexplained behavior.

 

So, please do be kind enough to go back to the original location and then we can find what's causing the other problems.

 

With kind regards,

Michel