0-10v led dimmer

[apostolakisl]

I am trying to use Insteon on an led fixture that uses a 0-10v controller.  Any ideas on how to get this to work with Insteon?  At this point I'm thinking that my only option would be to use an Insteon on/off switch on the main power supply and continue to use the 0-10v dimmer for control of brightness.

 

EDIT:  It seems the Insteon has discontinued the product I need.  Not sure what sort of reasonable workaround exists.

[larryllix]

26 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I am trying to use Insteon on an led fixture that uses a 0-10v controller.  Any ideas on how to get this to work with Insteon?  At this point I'm thinking that my only option would be to use an Insteon on/off switch on the main power supply and continue to use the 0-10v dimmer for control of brightness.

 

EDIT:  It seems the Insteon has discontinued the product I need.  Not sure what sort of reasonable workaround exists.

0-10v sounds like fluorescent?  I have one 4 x 32 W unit in my kitchen and I have thought about tearing out the ballasts and bulbs and installing a 5m  RGBWW LED strip and  LEDenet WiFi controller inside the cover. The white light off these WW strips is a beautiful 3000K that always feels much richer than any other white bulbs of any technology  I have seen. Dimming goes smoothly right down to 1% and the mechanical switch would turn it back onto the last colour used. or....A switchlinc used but not wired to the load could control the on/off level and colours but ISY and NRs would be required.

[apostolakisl]

13 minutes ago, larryllix said:

0-10v sounds like fluorescent?  I have one 4 x 32 W unit in my kitchen and I have thought about tearing out the ballasts and bulbs and installing a 5m  RGBWW LED strip and  LEDenet WiFi controller inside the cover. The white light off these WW strips is a beautiful 3000K that always feels much richer than any other white bulbs of any technology  I have seen. Dimming goes smoothly right down to 1% and the mechanical switch would turn it back onto the last colour used. or....A switchlinc used but not wired to the load could control the on/off level and colours but ISY and NRs would be required.

This is a very fancy high end led set of fixtures that lights up a dome in my church.  0-10v is used in fluorescent lights, but also leds and theatrical lighting.  The lights are staying . . . they cost like $50k.

 

EDIT:  This article pretty much tells you what I'm dealing with.  https://www.acuitybrands.com/products/detail/257121/fresco/fresco-dxt/-/media/products/Fresco/257121/document/0-10VDC-Best-Practice_pdf.pdf

[lilyoyo1]

Can you use a different transformer with them? I know some dimmable transformers work really well with Insteon such as magnitude

[apostolakisl]

7 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Can you use a different transformer with them? I know some dimmable transformers work really well with Insteon such as magnitude

No.  Like I said, it is a $50k system.  I'm not going to do that.

[larryllix]

10 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

This is a very fancy high end led set of fixtures that lights up a dome in my church.  0-10v is used in fluorescent lights, but also leds and theatrical lighting.  The lights are staying . . . they cost like $50k.

 

EDIT:  This article pretty much tells you what I'm dealing with.  https://www.acuitybrands.com/products/detail/257121/fresco/fresco-dxt/-/media/products/Fresco/257121/document/0-10VDC-Best-Practice_pdf.pdf

There was a thread about the same thing here, about a year or more ago. I don't think there was a good solution put forth.

Those controls seem to be oriented towards some studio style controller applications. There may be some transducer available that would interface an Insteon 120vac dimmer to a 0-10vdc sgnal.
Perhaps a simple non-regulated power supply (wallwart) but the transformer may not lke the chopped waveform and overheat from harmonics or make noise.

[apostolakisl]

If Insteon just didn't discontinue the purpose made version.  I'm sure the demand was very low, but still, they already did the r and d on it.

[Brian H]

It is possible it didn't have a great demand.

I have seen a few other things that maybe not in high demand disappear. Like some of the colors of the wall switch trim kits. IMeter Solo, SynchroLinc.

I saw something on the X10 forums. The 2477S switch that can unofficially still accept an X10 address. Is getting a new designed paddle trim next month. Since only the full off and full on positions are used. The new trim has all the intermediate positions removed. For someone that wants to match the trim to their older ones. Can purchase the old trim kit . So that will be another change in the future.

[lilyoyo1]

7 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

No.  Like I said, it is a $50k system.  I'm not going to do that.

If the lights are too expensive to try other alternatives, then the relay would be your only option along with manual control as you stated in the beginning. 

[apostolakisl]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If the lights are too expensive to try other alternatives, then the relay would be your only option along with manual control as you stated in the beginning. 

I have a feeling you are right.

My research would indicate  the way these work is 

1) You toggle on power

2) The transformer/ballast powers up and outputs 10v through a fixed resistor limiting current to a few milliamps.

3) A variable resistor in the dimmer (I suppose an old fashioned rheostat) sinks that current to ground resulting in a voltage drop proportional to the resistance applied. With the resistor at infinity, the voltage stays 10 and the lights are dimmed to the max.  With the resistor at 0 ohms and drops the voltage to 0 and the lights ramp up to full.

[apostolakisl]

8 hours ago, Brian H said:

It is possible it didn't have a great demand.

I have seen a few other things that maybe not in high demand disappear. Like some of the colors of the wall switch trim kits. IMeter Solo, SynchroLinc.

I saw something on the X10 forums. The 2477S switch that can unofficially still accept an X10 address. Is getting a new designed paddle trim next month. Since only the full off and full on positions are used. The new trim has all the intermediate positions removed. For someone that wants to match the trim to their older ones. Can purchase the old trim kit . So that will be another change in the future.

By trim, you mean the led bank?  I always thought it was a little odd that the on/off switch had all the intermediate led positions.  But I also can see why you would want it to look the same as a dimmer switch.  What to do?

[ELA]

How many dim levels are acceptable?

If 8 were enough:

EZIO8 & 8 different resistor values.

[apostolakisl]

20 minutes ago, ELA said:

How many dim levels are acceptable?

If 8 were enough:

EZIO8 & 8 different resistor values.

Not a bad thought.

[builderb]

I looked into this for an aquarium light I have that works the same way: line voltage to the LEDs, and a 0-10v control wire regulating the voltage of the lights.

You can DIY a controller using the PWM outputs of an Arduino or Pi type device and a voltage doubling circuit. Add a wi-fi shield, and you can have it interact with the ISY REST interface, and back at the light via network resources.

With the right skill set, it’s not too difficult. Depends how valuable your time is.

[builderb]

I looked into this for an aquarium light I have that works the same way: line voltage to the LEDs, and a 0-10v control wire regulating the voltage of the lights.

You can DIY a controller using the PWM outputs of an Arduino or Pi type device and a voltage doubling circuit. Add a wi-fi shield, and you can have it interact with the ISY REST interface, and back at the light via network resources.

With the right skill set, it’s not too difficult. Depends how valuable your time is.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

Not a bad thought.

With a binary value resistance ladder 256 levels can  be produced with 8 outputs.

 

If there is a common place a WC8 could output the analogues to what 8 lights?

[Brian H]

12 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

By trim, you mean the led bank?  I always thought it was a little odd that the on/off switch had all the intermediate led positions.  But I also can see why you would want it to look the same as a dimmer switch.  What to do?

The photo I saw of the new trim plate. Has just the Off and On LED positions. To match the Off and On LEDs in the switch. The unused LED positions go all the way back to the original 2476S. So the relay and dimmers could use the same color change and light pipe kits. Now I wounder if they will have trim color change kits for the new style or if you want a different color. You get the older style and unused positions.

[ELA]

21 hours ago, larryllix said:

With a binary value resistance ladder 256 levels can  be produced with 8 outputs.

 

If there is a common place a WC8 could output the analogues to what 8 lights?

256 will not work with the EZIO8.   The ISY does not support the scenes  required to do combinations for the EZIO8.   You can do 8 outputs though.

[larryllix]

256 will not work with the EZIO8.   The ISY does not support the scenes  required to do combinations for the EZIO8.   You can do 8 outputs though.

Only one output at a time?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[ELA]

Larry,

I spent a lot of time on this a long time ago and forget most of the details.

Here is a link about that effort;

With Lee Gs help I was eventually able to make special scenes that did work but it was a lot of work and not very maintainable.

I had created a request for the ISY to support the EZIO8SA using direct commands to support all 256 combinations but it never was implemented as best I know.

Maybe some one from UDI can update us?

 

 

[apostolakisl]

40 minutes ago, ELA said:

Larry,

I spent a lot of time on this a long time ago and forget most of the details.

Here is a link about that effort;

With Lee Gs help I was eventually able to make special scenes that did work but it was a lot of work and not very maintainable.

I had created a request for the ISY to support the EZIO8SA using direct commands to support all 256 combinations but it never was implemented as best I know.

Maybe some one from UDI can update us?

 

 

Thanks for the info, but this particular situation just doesn't warrant that much effort.  I think I'm going to put a switchlinc on it and screw the dimming part.