motion sensor ii - programming with insteon hub?

[jbrooks]

Hi all,

I have a motion sensor ii.  I understand they don't work well with 4.x or even 5.x, but that some have had luck with programming these using an insteon hub, then moving it over to their isy.  I was wondering how...?

I have an insteon hub.  i did a factory reset on my motion sensor (pulled battery, held down set while putting battery back in), then tried to add it to my hub, but the hub couldn't find it.

a few questions i guess... 

does the hub have an RF radio?  can it scan by itself, or do i need some other device connected to the hub before i can add it?

is there a trick to getting the hub to find the motion sensor?

when (if?) i can get the motion sensor programmed on the hub, do i just add it to the isy?  remove links?  leave them?

tips, tricks and suggestions very welcome!

 

thanks!

Joel

[jbrooks]

I still haven't managed to get my MSv2 attached to my old insteon hub.. and it's getting bad now.  My wife can't go into the storage room anymore for fear that the lights will turn off on her while she's rummaging around in the freezer. 

 

[Brian H]

Don't use a HUB so I don't have lots of data.

I can say both the 2242-222 original HUB and the 2245-222 newer HUB II. Both are Dual Band and have an Insteon RF capability.

[dbwarner5]

I am able to have ISY monitor a motion sensor II. Just can't do any direct programming to the MD. But for simple motion detection, on / off, it works fine. I just made other adjustments in my ISY programming to accommodate time offs etc. 

[jbrooks]

@dbwarner5, how do you mean?  is there a way to use a program to make the lights ignore the OFF signal from the MS?

My case is pretty simple.  Motion sensor in the basement storage room with two insteon bulbs.  on movement detected, turn on lights.  but the motion sensor's timeout is too short.  I'd like to have the lights stay on for maybe 20 minutes.... any tips/tricks?

 

cheers,

 

Joel

 

[dbwarner5]

Two ways : first option is to  add a wait 20 minutes to your program after the turn on command followed by the turn light off command. You don’t need to use the “off” command at all from the MD. But this assumes the program stays true when motion stops  

The second way depending on what your condition test you are using you can put the wait into the Else part of the program so that the condition of on from the MD triggers the Then and turns the light on. Then when the condition of “off” comes from the MD the program goes false where you simply put a wait of xx minutes followed by the light off into the Else command 

 

 

[dbwarner5]

To avoid excess Insteon traffic on this command you may also want to add an “and” that tests if the light is not on for it to be a true result. 

If the light is already on and it sees motion it will become false and restart the timer in the Else command 

[jbrooks]

Thank you!  @dbwarner5... are you activating a program based on the "Control ON" for the motion sensor?

[dbwarner5]

Sorry jbrooks, I was answering quickly on my phone. 

here is a sample program. I am using a front hall light as the example, with a pole barn motion detector  (no reason why here... lol).

Test - [ID 005A][Parent 0147]

If
        Control 'MDS Outside PoleBarn Drive' is switched On
    And Status  'Front Hall' is Off
 
Then
        Set 'Front Hall' On
 
Else
        Wait  20 minutes 
        Set 'Front Hall' Off
 

give something like this a try and see if it will work for you. 

[dbwarner5]

FYI, the above program will run the Else statement twice, but the light will be off after the first run of the Else.

Explanation: 

- No motion, light is off, nothing happens,

-then motion, while light is off, then the statement becomes true, the light turns on.

-This changes the state of the light so the If runs and becomes False, because now the light is on, even if the MD is still on

-Then when the 20 minutes is up, without any new motion to retest the if, the light turns off (if there was motion, the If would restart the false because  the light is On). This status change of the light to off causes the If to re-run. This time, while the light is off (true condition), and if the MD has not changed and is off,  the program turns false again and runs the Else command again. 

-After another 20 minutes, it will send an off command to the light which is already off, so since there is no status change to the light or the motion detector, the If does not run again and the program stops. 

 

There are ways around this, but for your application, it really doesn't cause any issues anywhere to do it this way. The ISY can easily handle a background task of 20 minute timer and one single Insteon command and keeps this to one program. 

 

Hope that helps shed some light on what you may be seeing. 

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, dbwarner5 said:

Sorry jbrooks, I was answering quickly on my phone. 

here is a sample program. I am using a front hall light as the example, with a pole barn motion detector  (no reason why here... lol).

Test - [ID 005A][Parent 0147]

If
        Control 'MDS Outside PoleBarn Drive' is switched On
    And Status  'Front Hall' is Off
 
Then
        Set 'Front Hall' On
 
Else
        Wait  20 minutes 
        Set 'Front Hall' Off
 

give something like this a try and see if it will work for you. 

This has created a retriggerable timer that resets with every detection of movement.

@jbrooksThis can be done with the usual simple  lighting timer program. The send Off needs to be disabled in the options for the MS, though.
The program is simpler and will indicate green while the lamp is on, not red = running else.

Test 

If
        Control 'MDS Outside PoleBarn Drive' is switched On

Then
        Set 'Front Hall' On
        Wait  20 minutes 
        Set 'Front Hall' Off
Else
    ----

 

[jbrooks]

Thank you for sharing and for the detailed explanation!   I'm experimenting now.  This is super helpful!   My wife has been killing me about the lights turning off too fast in the storage room.   

[dbwarner5]

Larry question for you. I guess it depends on the type of room and the MD location. If the MD is by the entrance and the person will be in and out of range once entering, then in your program, the MD will time out and turn to off. The light will stay on for 20 minutes, but if in the meantime the MD turns on again, we are resending the insteon traffic each time and likewise retriggering the Then part of the program.

You are right, mine does retirgger the false each time with motion, resetting the timer and the Else command, but without resending insteon traffic,  and then one extra time at the end. I might still prefer this manner than resending insteon each time. But if its a simple room where you will be in range of the MD the whole time, i agree your program is better. 

Thoughts?

Thanks.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, dbwarner5 said:

Larry question for you. I guess it depends on the type of room and the MD location. If the MD is by the entrance and the person will be in and out of range once entering, then in your program, the MD will time out and turn to off. The light will stay on for 20 minutes, but if in the meantime the MD turns on again, we are resending the insteon traffic each time and likewise retriggering the Then part of the program.

You are right, mine does retirgger the false each time with motion, resetting the timer and the Else command, but without resending insteon traffic,  and then one extra time at the end. I might still prefer this manner than resending insteon each time. But if its a simple room where you will be in range of the MD the whole time, i agree your program is better. 

Thoughts?

Thanks.

I think I agree with everything you gave concluded.  MS placement is most important.

I hate to complicate your world just yet but you will get there some day anyway. This is the best way to use an MS I have found.  Feel free to ask questions. This was always a very common subject here a few years ago amd a source of confusion.

 

[dbwarner5]

Larry, Lol.. can't complicate my world much further than I already have.

For example, in my master bath, I use Elk hardwired MD, that trigger the lights (six sets). The lights are in a scene that gets changed 4 times per day with the morning settings dependent on weekday vs weekend (5 programs). Also an alarm I set up with an 8 button keypad will also change the scene to correspond with the wake up time if its earlier than the daily set time (a line in another program). 

As for the MD, I have a main program that turns on the lights for 10 minutes. But if you are exiting the bath, we (my wife especially) like to manually turn them off, so there is another program that disables the MD for 5 seconds so there is time to exit with the lights staying off (I do this in all rooms that have MD as guests get frustrated as they always want to turn the lights off and they come back on without this). Likewise, we have found that when in the shower, the MD doesn't see us, so if you turn on the shower light manually while it is on or off, it overrides the 10 minute delay and keeps the lights on for 30 minutes. Lastly, we have a jacuzzi tub in the bath, so when you turn the jacuzzi light off while off, it disables the MD, sets mood lighting and turns on the gas fireplace. Turning on any of the 6 bath lights manually while in the jacuzzi mood setting disables the jacuzzi setting and re-enables the standard MD programming from above. A total of another ~6 programs. 

And that is just the master bath, so, yea, I get "complicated".  LOL. 

cheers, have a good day. By the way, I am enjoying reading up on some of your other posts. Haven't had time before now to really enjoy doing this. thanks. 

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, dbwarner5 said:

Larry, Lol.. can't complicate my world much further than I already have.

For example, in my master bath, I use Elk hardwired MD, that trigger the lights (six sets). The lights are in a scene that gets changed 4 times per day with the morning settings dependent on weekday vs weekend (5 programs). Also an alarm I set up with an 8 button keypad will also change the scene to correspond with the wake up time if its earlier than the daily set time (a line in another program). 

As for the MD, I have a main program that turns on the lights for 10 minutes. But if you are exiting the bath, we (my wife especially) like to manually turn them off, so there is another program that disables the MD for 5 seconds so there is time to exit with the lights staying off (I do this in all rooms that have MD as guests get frustrated as they always want to turn the lights off and they come back on without this). Likewise, we have found that when in the shower, the MD doesn't see us, so if you turn on the shower light manually while it is on or off, it overrides the 10 minute delay and keeps the lights on for 30 minutes. Lastly, we have a jacuzzi tub in the bath, so when you turn the jacuzzi light off while off, it disables the MD, sets mood lighting and turns on the gas fireplace. Turning on any of the 6 bath lights manually while in the jacuzzi mood setting disables the jacuzzi setting and re-enables the standard MD programming from above. A total of another ~6 programs. 

And that is just the master bath, so, yea, I get "complicated".  LOL. 

cheers, have a good day. By the way, I am enjoying reading up on some of your other posts. Haven't had time before now to really enjoy doing this. thanks. 

You're in trouble! I am almost getting to the 4-500 program mark. I never thought this would happen but wait until you get into some smart HVAC! 
Since I am not sleeping anymore, I could have just manually operated the furnace system.   

Wife actually is starting to like the Alexas and Google Homes around the house as they actually listen to her more than her husband does.

[dbwarner5]

Alexa was the game changer for my wife to embrace all the automation too, same case here.. lol

[Bumbershoot]

Piggybacking off this topic -- I used an Insteon HUB to try to configure the Motion Sensor II v.46 LED not to blink when motion is sensed under battery power, but to no avail.  It still blinks, just as when configured using an ISY.  I suspect the firmware version of the Motion Sensor II v.46 is buggy.

If anyone has one with a newer firmware that v.46 that doesn't blink when motion is sensed under battery power, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks