I/O Linc and Garage Door triggering

[Vinnie]

I installed an Insteon I/O Linc Garage Door kit that I bought on Amazon: Insteon Garage Door Control and Status Kit, 74551.   It works fine, but I'm confused about the ISY setup.  The wires are connected from the GDO to the IOLinc's COM and NO connectors.  The wires from the door sensor are connected to the S and GND connectors.  When I send an ON command from the ISY Admin Console or MobiLinc, it opens the door.  Another ON command closes the door.  OFF commands do nothing.   In the ISY Admin Console -> IOLinc Relay -> Options, I set it to "Momentary A: Trigger by either On or Off".  I also tried method B with the same results.  The Momentary Hold time is set to 1 second.

My interpretation of method A was that sending either an ON or OFF command would trigger the IOLinc similarly to pressing the button on the GDO control panel (i.e. closing the circuit for one second).  

Did I do something wrong or am I just confused about what the Momentary A option means?

Edited November 27, 2018 by Vinnie

[larryllix]

Your IO/Link can only do the same thing your GDO pushbutton does. Each time you push the button the direction alternates.

 

It could be determined with the status of the door, used  in an ISY program though.

[oberkc]

8 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Did I do something wrong or am I just confused about what the Momentary A option means?

No, I do not think you are confused about momentary-A.  (Either that, or we are both confused.)  My understanding of momentary-A mode is that either (both) ON and OFF commands will trigger the relay to close momentarily.

The only thought that I have is that this may work differently when the relay is part of a scene with another insteon device (keypad button, for example) as controller.  Is there a chance you have a spare device laying around to test this theory?

[Vinnie]

Unfortunately, I don't have a spare device to play around with.  It's not a big deal ultimately, as I am using the device from a custom web app, so I can just trigger it using an ON command regardless of its status.  It just would have been more intuitive if it worked as expected...  

[oberkc]

Even if you don't have a spare device, create a scene (as a test) and put the relay in it.  From there, send scene ON and OFF commands and observe how the different modes react.  I think you will find that the device DOES work as expected from a scene perspective.

[JCDinPGH]

I apologize for digging up an old topic but I am having the exact issue described by the OP where ON just toggles my garage door open or closed. OFF does nothing. The sensor does correctly know if the door is open or closed though. I have read through https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Garage_Door_Kit and frankly it left me even more confused. Thaqt article talks about a keypadlinc which I am not using and do not have. I would like to have my ISY994 have a "Garage door open" and a "garage door close" commands so I can integrate them into Alexa. But since ON can do either OPEN or CLOSE depending on the current status, I'm confused how to set this up. I did see discussion about setting up a scene in the above link but found it somewhat confusing since it appeared to have options which don't seem to be available on mine. My garage controller is the 74551 which has a magnetic sensor which I purchased in 04/2017 if that matters. Can someone walk me through setting up scenes for garage door open and garage door close since the ON command just toggles between open and close?

Edited October 1, 2019 by JCDinPGH

[JCDinPGH]

If it helps any, my 74551 has a magnetic sensor and two other wires currently with one connected to COM and the other to connected to N/O. The garage door opener is a Craftsman 41A-5021. It is pretty old, like 15 years or more. I have tried all kinds of combinations for the Garage door sensor in the ISY994I (latching, momentary:a,momentary:B and mometary:C but no matter what I try, only ON commands seem to do anything and toggle the garage door between OPEN and CLOSE. OFF does nothing.

[oberkc]

Well, I thought momentary C would be just what you needed.  According to my understanding, the proper command to actuate the door would be based upon sensor input, but you tried it and did not do this.  So....

Given this, you could potentially solve this problem programmatically.  Create a "close" program and an "open" program.  Each program would first evaluate the status of your door and, if already closed, the "closed" program would do nothing.  If already open, the "closed" program would close the door (by sending an ON command).  The "open" program would work opposite this.

Perhaps this approach could solve your problem?

[JCDinPGH]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

Well, I thought momentary C would be just what you needed.  According to my understanding, the proper command to actuate the door would be based upon sensor input, but you tried it and did not do this.  So....

Given this, you could potentially solve this problem programmatically.  Create a "close" program and an "open" program.  Each program would first evaluate the status of your door and, if already closed, the "closed" program would do nothing.  If already open, the "closed" program would close the door (by sending an ON command).  The "open" program would work opposite this.

Perhaps this approach could solve your problem?

That is a great idea and I can't believe I didn't think of it. Sometimes I forget that things that can be done with the ISY994. I will try that. I'm also wondering if I am using the wrong terminals on the garage module. I can try switching to NC and COM instead of NO and COM.

 

[JCDinPGH]

I am about ready to give up. Been at this for a few days now and it just gets weirder. I created a program called "Garage open" as you suggested that checks the status of the garage door sensor and if it is on (meaning magnets are seeing each other and door is closed), it sends as THEN "GARAGE DOOR RELAY ON". I also created a "Garage Close" that checks the status of the garage door sensor and if it is OFF (meaning the magnets are not seeing each other and the door is currently open), it sends as THEN "GARAGE DOOR RELAY ON". Remember only ON is working so everything must rely on the status of the garage door sensor. Once I did this, I thought I had it but now the door closes, and then opens 1/4 of the way and stops so it is left 3/4 closed. This is consistent and happens every time. I thought maybe something was mixed up in the ISY994 or in the garage relay so I removed the programs and the garage relay and rebooted the ISY994. I also performed a reset to defaults on the garage relay by holding in the button for 10 seconds while powering it on. Just for good measure, I also powered off the garage door via the subpanel in case it's sensors were screwed up. I did all of this a few times and no matter what, the garage closes and then immediately reopens 1/4 of the way and stops. If I disable the two programs (GARAGE OPEN and GARAGE STOP), toggling ON for the GARAGE RELAY works as expected. So the issue is definitely the programs. They aren't complicated at all.

GARAGE OPEN - If GARAGE Sensor is ON, THEN set GARAGE RELAY ON

GARAGE CLOSE: If Garage Sensor is OFF, THEN set GARAGE RELAY ON.

No clue why it is acting even weirder.

[TrojanHorse]

I don’t use iolinc but don’t you have turn it off? I only see your program turning it on?

 

I compiled a set of programs to do something similar with my elk and a relay. I posted about it years ago and will see if I can dig up a link.

 

But before we go that route, what happens if you add a “wait 1 second” “set garage relay OFF” to your program?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JCDinPGH]

31 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

I don’t use iolinc but don’t you have turn it off? I only see your program turning it on?

 

I compiled a set of programs to do something similar with my elk and a relay. I posted about it years ago and will see if I can dig up a link.

 

But before we go that route, what happens if you add a “wait 1 second” “set garage relay OFF” to your program?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Sorry. I forgot to mention that. I tried adding WAITs and set garage relay off also. No difference. 

[oberkc]

5 hours ago, TrojanHorse said:

I don’t use iolinc but don’t you have turn it off? I only see your program turning it on?

Depending on the mode (momentary), the IOLinc can turn itself off and respond only to ON commands, only to OFF commands, to both, or can be configured to "latching" mode.

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by oberkc

[oberkc]

6 hours ago, JCDinPGH said:

No clue why it is acting even weirder.

My fault.  These programs must be disabled.  What is likely happening is, when the sensor changes state, it triggers both programs.  

You only want these programs triggered by a call from your echo alexa, not self-triggered. 

[Brian H]

You mentioned trying the NC and Common relay output.

That is like holding the control button all the time and releasing it when the I/OLinc is activated. That maybe contributing to the confusion.

[JCDinPGH]

31 minutes ago, Brian H said:

You mentioned trying the NC and Common relay output.

That is like holding the control button all the time and releasing it when the I/OLinc is activated. That maybe contributing to the confusion.

So I should try the NO and COM wiring instead? I will try that also. Nothing left to lose at this point.

[JCDinPGH]

Some things that may be relevant. 

My ISY994 is on firmware 4.7.3. I really am trying to avoid betas.

I was never able to get the 74551 to be registered via linking mode. I tried multiple times. I have only been able to manually add it via link management -> New Insteon Device.

I have tried changing modes including Latching, Momentary A,B,C. 

I saw someone else that is controlling their garage door via a scene instead of a program. If I can figure out how they did it, I might try that.

 

[paulbates]

There is a lot written above... here are things to think about

Use Momentary B in the iolinc configuration. Either on or off will trigger the door. Garage door openers with the iolinc will operate just like the manual opener unit.... one button for everything. In this case setting it on or off will be just like pressing the manual opener button

 

Also, you may be trying to hard by checking the status at all. Have no if statement for the program. Simple say "set garage relay on" for both programs. That will have the same effect as your voice command having alexa press the manual garage door opener button

Paul

 

[oberkc]

16 minutes ago, paulbates said:

Also, you may be trying to hard by checking the status at all. Have no if statement for the program. Simple say "set garage relay on" for both programs. That will have the same effect as your voice command having alexa press the manual garage door opener button

Paul, the original purpose was to have a separate "close" and "open" statement to be used by alexa.  I believe that the point was to tell alexa to close the door and, if the door was already closed, to do nothing.  Alternatively, telling alexa to open the door would not cause a door already open to be closed.

 

20 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

My ISY994 is on firmware 4.7.3. I really am trying to avoid betas.

no problem

 

21 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

I was never able to get the 74551 to be registered via linking mode. I tried multiple times. I have only been able to manually add it via link management -> New Insteon Device

I don't believe that this is a contributing factor.

 

22 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

I have tried changing modes including Latching, Momentary A,B,C.

Should not use latching.  Since you tried momentary C without success, I would stick to A or B.

 

22 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

I saw someone else that is controlling their garage door via a scene instead of a program. If I can figure out how they did it, I might try that.

This is how I do it, using a keypad button as scene controller and relay as scene responder.  I did not think you wanted to do this.  I suppose you could create a single-device scene with only the relay as responder.  Have your program command the scene.  Perhaps this is a good idea.  I have always had a recollection that the IOLinc modes were only in effect as scene responder, but others have corrected me when I bring this up.  But, I have come to the age where I remember things that did not happen and don't remember things that did happen.

In the end, I would stick with your two programs as is, but disabled.  Call those programs as needed from Alexa.  See if this works.

[JCDinPGH]

I tried changing the connection from using NO and COM and the door won't open or close, either from within the ISY994 or from the button on the 74551. I completely removed it and reset the 74551 by holding down it's button for 10 seconds while powering it on. I also tried every mode latching etc. It appears to only be able to trigger the door  when connected via NC and COM.

[JCDinPGH]

I tried creating 2 programs.

OPEN GARAGE looks like IF garage door-sensor  is ON THEN set garage-door relay ON

CLOSE GARAGE looks like IF garage door-sensor  is OFF THEN set garage-door relay ON

I disabled both programs and then logged into my ISY portal and choose connectivity AMAZON Alexa and PROGRAMS, choose GARAGE OPEN and set it as a SCENE. I did the same for PROGRAM GARAGE CLOSE.

Then I went into the ALEXA app and discovered devices where it found GARAGE OPEN and GARAGE CLOSE.

I then created a routine that when OPEN GARAGE DOOR was spoken would run scene OPEN GARAGE

I also created a routine that when CLOSE GARAGE DOOR was spoken, it would run scene CLOSE GARAGE

Unfortunately even though the logic in the OPEN GARAGE program should only open the garage if the garage door sensor is ON, both Alexa routines just toggle the current state of the door.

Now I am even more confused. 

I'm thinking this is never going to work. I just don't know what else to try.

 

[larryllix]

52 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

I tried creating 2 programs.

OPEN GARAGE looks like IF garage door-sensor  is ON THEN set garage-door relay ON

CLOSE GARAGE looks like IF garage door-sensor  is OFF THEN set garage-door relay ON

I disabled both programs and then logged into my ISY portal and choose connectivity AMAZON Alexa and PROGRAMS, choose GARAGE OPEN and set it as a SCENE. I did the same for PROGRAM GARAGE CLOSE.

Then I went into the ALEXA app and discovered devices where it found GARAGE OPEN and GARAGE CLOSE.

I then created a routine that when OPEN GARAGE DOOR was spoken would run scene OPEN GARAGE

I also created a routine that when CLOSE GARAGE DOOR was spoken, it would run scene CLOSE GARAGE

Unfortunately even though the logic in the OPEN GARAGE program should only open the garage if the garage door sensor is ON, both Alexa routines just toggle the current state of the door.

Now I am even more confused. 

I'm thinking this is never going to work. I just don't know what else to try.

 

IIRC the Alexa commands via ISY Portal bypass the If section. You may have to create programs, invoked by Alexa, that call other programs If sections containing the conditions.

You could also make Alexa operate a variable and just watch the variable in your program(s)

oooops. one more @oberkc method LOL
Use Alexa to control a dummy program and allow the main programs to watch the state of the dummy program. No variables required. I would find this obscure and would not  be my preference.

Edited October 2, 2019 by larryllix

[JCDinPGH]

13 minutes ago, larryllix said:

IIRC the Alexa commands via ISY Portal bypass the If section. You may have to create programs, invoked by Alexa, that call other programs If sections containing the conditions.

You could also make Alexa operate a variable and just watch the variable in your program(s)

oooops. one more @oberkc method LOL
Use Alexa to control a dummy program and allow the main programs to watch the state of the dummy program. No variables required. I would find this obscure and would not  be my preference.

I will try the program calling program option as it appears you are correct, that Alexa bypasses IF.

[JCDinPGH]

38 minutes ago, JCDinPGH said:

I will try the program calling program option as it appears you are correct, that Alexa bypasses IF.

Setting up a program to call the GARAGE OPEN or GARAGE CLOSE programs was the way to go since that actually uses the logic of testing the sensor first since IF is actually executed..

Thanks for all of your help! 

[dstanley]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:47 AM, JCDinPGH said:

Setting up a program to call the GARAGE OPEN or GARAGE CLOSE programs was the way to go since that actually uses the logic of testing the sensor first since IF is actually executed..

Thanks for all of your help! 

JCDinPGH

Would you be so kind as to post the programs and variables that you are using for mine and others reference?

Thanks!