Insteon dimmer reliability and alternatives

[dth930]

I have a number of Insteon dimmers - 2477 and 2476 that have been dying lately.  They either just go dead with no LEDs on the dimmer and no control of the load or they start flashing both the LEDs on the dimmer and the load.  In the latter case, there's no control available from the local buttons and neither a power cycle or a hard reset of the dimmer fixes the problem.

Has anyone else had reliability issues like this with these dimmers?  If so, is there a recommendation for a replacement product that works with ISY and is more reliable and long-lasting?

I'm thinking something like Philips Hue, but am open to any other ideas.

Right now I have 5 dimmers that would need to be replaced so I'm trying to making a decision before investing in them.  I can easily replace them, but it seems that I have dimmers dying at least once a year and would prefer not to be constantly replacing them.

 - Dave

 

[mwester]

GE Z-Wave dimmers have been working well for me.  I have a few Hue bulbs, but I've found I can only use those effectively in floor lamps and table lamps -- they require power all the time, and I'm not willing to bypass the wall switches to direct wire all the ceiling fixtures.  Also I'm not a fan of the Hue tap things....

[lilyoyo1]

I know Insteons reliability has gotten much better over the years so I wouldn't be opposed to staying with them. You state you have 2476s dying. Since those haven't been made in at least 6 years, how old are your switches overall? Being an electronic device at some point they will die. That won't change no matter who you go with. 

As already mentioned you could try zwave but that comes with it's own set of issues that may or may not be a problem for you (no protocol is perfect). As with Mwester, I only use mine for lamps and accent lights (strip lights). I wouldn't use them for main lights. For me, It's not cost effective (house dependant). Secondly, should your router or bridge go down, they won't work until you replace them. 

[dth930]

The dimmers I'm replacing are probably around that age - 6-8 years.  I have a mixture of 2476s and 2477s.  They all seem to be failing a few at a time.

The difference with something like Hue is that the replacement is much easier when they do fail.  But I agree that the shortcomings aren't worth the trade-off at this point.

I was hoping to learn what the flashing LEDs indicated and that there would be a fix, but I guess I'm not in luck.  I'll try replacing them and hope I get some more time out of the new ones.  If the reliability has gotten better maybe that will work for me.

 - Dave

[paulbates]

I have switches and modules older than that, going on 12 years. I lost a couple inlinelincs installed in 2007, but they were powering low voltage lighting transformers that approaching the switches limits, taking double ganging, etc into account. As there was mixed messaging at the time about triac dimmers and electronic transformers, I anticipated that those would be problematic. Other inlinelincs installed at the same time for normal loads are still working. The couple I replaced have been fine for quite a few years.

I also did keypad installs in 2011-12 time frame. A few of those went out, but it was a known manufacturing defect and SH replaced them and no problems with the replacements.. outside of the occasional "restore device", maybe every couple of years.

I did install a whole house surge protector in my panel in my X10 days. I think that's a key insurance policy for any electronics in the house and why I've not had a lot of problems with insteon devices. I've replaced 2 PLMs, my first one within weeks and SH replaced.

I like insteon for house lighting because its not wifi dependent or controller dependent; and the design has direct links between switches and lighting control. The PLM and even ISY could die, and house lighting will continue to function. Also, its had scene and switch status from the beginning.. no polling or other controller dependent programming requirements for house lighting. Its very low maintenance and no support when I'm traveling.. outside of a restore device every year or 2, there's nothing to do.

Paul

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, paulbates said:

I have switches and modules older than that, going on 12 years. I lost a couple inlinelincs installed in 2007, but they were powering low voltage lighting transformers that approaching the switches limits, taking double ganging, etc into account. As there was mixed messaging at the time about triac dimmers and electronic transformers, I anticipated that those would be problematic. Other inlinelincs installed at the same time for normal loads are still working. The couple I replaced have been fine for quite a few years.

I also did keypad installs in 2011-12 time frame. A few of those went out, but it was a known manufacturing defect and SH replaced them and no problems with the replacements.. outside of the occasional "restore device", maybe every couple of years.

I did install a whole house surge protector in my panel in my X10 days. I think that's a key insurance policy for any electronics in the house and why I've not had a lot of problems with insteon devices. I've replaced 2 PLMs, my first one within weeks and SH replaced.

I like insteon for house lighting because its not wifi dependent or controller dependent; and the design has direct links between switches and lighting control. The PLM and even ISY could die, and house lighting will continue to function. Also, its had scene and switch status from the beginning.. no polling or other controller dependent programming requirements for house lighting. Its very low maintenance and no support when I'm traveling.. outside of a restore device every year or 2, there's nothing to do.

Paul

My exact sentiments as well. Well said. +1 on the whole house protection. I have one on my meter and panel. I recommend anyone using electronic switches to do the same. 

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, dth930 said:

The dimmers I'm replacing are probably around that age - 6-8 years.  I have a mixture of 2476s and 2477s.  They all seem to be failing a few at a time.

The difference with something like Hue is that the replacement is much easier when they do fail.  But I agree that the shortcomings aren't worth the trade-off at this point.

I was hoping to learn what the flashing LEDs indicated and that there would be a fix, but I guess I'm not in luck.  I'll try replacing them and hope I get some more time out of the new ones.  If the reliability has gotten better maybe that will work for me.

 - Dave

I agree about ease of replacement. Especially with multi-gang boxes. I used extra deep boxes when I built my house so I wouldn't have to fight so hard if/when I needed to do a swap. 

[dth930]

Thanks for the additional thoughts.  I agree 100% with the benefits of whole-house surge protection... so much so that I've had one installed for as long as the Insteon devices have been around.  I can't say how much it's saved me because I don't have "before and after" data, but I'm sure I'd see even more failures without it.

 - Dave

[Sub-Routine]

Another thing I have found for ease of replacement are WAGO Lever Nuts. No more twisting wires together with the fatigue that accompanies. And they are slimmer than traditional wire nuts.

Cut off the twisted end of a solid wire, strip it to length once, and never again. Stranded wire must be tinned, but all the Insteons are from the factory and you will never have to redo them.

Only issue I found is the 5 connectors won't accept a 12 gauge solid like the 2 & 3s. I daisy-chained a couple of 3's together in a few boxes with many neutrals.

[dth930]

Wow - those are great.  I actually used the push-in Wago connectors for the installation but those look smaller and easier to use.  I'll give them a try when I swap out these dimmers.  If nothing else, they seem easier during replacement since the wires should remove more easily.

 - Dave

[paulbates]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:54 AM, Sub-Routine said:

Another thing I have found for ease of replacement are WAGO Lever Nuts. No more twisting wires together with the fatigue that accompanies. And they are slimmer than traditional wire nuts.

Cut off the twisted end of a solid wire, strip it to length once, and never again. Stranded wire must be tinned, but all the Insteons are from the factory and you will never have to redo them.

Only issue I found is the 5 connectors won't accept a 12 gauge solid like the 2 & 3s. I daisy-chained a couple of 3's together in a few boxes with many neutrals.

I think they are somewhat 'safer' too. They length of insulator can be controlled so that no wire is showing and change because or twisting. Because there is no pushing and bending of a twisted set of wires like with lug nuts, less pressure and better ability to coax it into position.

Paul