Trouble keeping 2844-222 connected to ISY v5.0.14

[ENCJP]

I upgraded my ISY to Beta version 5.0.14 this weekend after buying some Motion Sensor II's during SmartHome's sensor sale.  ISY can find the device by address and I was able to set it up.  It seems that after setting it up, it disconnects.  To see if it's connected, I'll click the "Beep" button and the Admin console with say that it cannot connect to the Motion Sensor II module.  If I toggle the Motion off (red LED) then back on (green LED), it will connect and the MS responds to the "Beep" button.  After a bit, if you try, it will fail with the error message again. 

The ISY is within 10 ft of the MS and there is also a dual band FanLinc in the area.

What are my best steps for troubleshooting this?  

[Techman]

15 minutes ago, ENCJP said:

I upgraded my ISY to Beta version 5.0.14 this weekend after buying some Motion Sensor II's during SmartHome's sensor sale.  ISY can find the device by address and I was able to set it up.  It seems that after setting it up, it disconnects.  To see if it's connected, I'll click the "Beep" button and the Admin console with say that it cannot connect to the Motion Sensor II module.  If I toggle the Motion off (red LED) then back on (green LED), it will connect and the MS responds to the "Beep" button.  After a bit, if you try, it will fail with the error message again. 

The ISY is within 10 ft of the MS and there is also a dual band FanLinc in the area.

What are my best steps for troubleshooting this?  

Battery operated devices go into a sleep mode and can't be queried from the ISY unless they're put into the linking mode.

Press and hold the set button on the top left until the led blinks green.  To cancel linking press and hold the set button until the led blinks red.

 

[Bumbershoot]

19 minutes ago, ENCJP said:

I upgraded my ISY to Beta version 5.0.14 this weekend after buying some Motion Sensor II's during SmartHome's sensor sale.  ISY can find the device by address and I was able to set it up.  It seems that after setting it up, it disconnects.  To see if it's connected, I'll click the "Beep" button and the Admin console with say that it cannot connect to the Motion Sensor II module.  If I toggle the Motion off (red LED) then back on (green LED), it will connect and the MS responds to the "Beep" button.  After a bit, if you try, it will fail with the error message again. 

The ISY is within 10 ft of the MS and there is also a dual band FanLinc in the area.

What are my best steps for troubleshooting this?  

If your MSII is powered by battery, then I believe they don't communicate with the ISY unless they're woken up by motion or by a button press.  My understanding is that there is a short period after the sensor detects motion that you can use to connect to the device and query it.  If the device is powered by USB, then you can query it anytime.

MSIIQuery - [ID 00FF][Parent 00DF]

If
        '4A.54.E8.1 Motion' is switched On
 
Then
        Set '4A.54.E8.1 Motion' Query
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[ENCJP]

1 hour ago, Techman said:

Battery operated devices go into a sleep mode and can't be queried from the ISY unless they're put into the linking mode.

Press and hold the set button on the top left until the led blinks green.  To cancel linking press and hold the set button until the led blinks red.

 

Good to know... I won't use the "Beep" button for determining comm status.  I'll give it a go again this evening and report back.

[ENCJP]

I didn't have luck using motion status to trigger a program, but it works as intended when setting the MS as a controller for a scene.

[Bumbershoot]

5 minutes ago, ENCJP said:

I didn't have luck using motion status to trigger a program, but it works as intended when setting the MS as a controller for a scene.

I don't think "Status" will do it.  I think you need to use "Control" in the IF stanza of your program.

 

[kclenden]

26 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I don't think "Status" will do it.  I think you need to use "Control" in the IF stanza of your program.

 

I don't think "Status" will work if  you have the MS II setup to send ON commands only.  If the MS II sends both ON and OFF commands, then perhaps "Status" would work since the ISY would see it go from OFF to ON and ON to OFF.

[larryllix]

I don't think "Status" will work if  you have the MS II setup to send ON commands only.  If the MS II sends both ON and OFF commands, then perhaps "Status" would work since the ISY would see it go from OFF to ON and ON to OFF.

I would doubt ISY would even offer that selection for a trigger event only type device.

If available, then ISY would have to create the status from its history of operations as it is not likely for any device to send a status update since it doesn't accept remote state commands from other devices. UDI doesn't typically create artificial statuses for remote devices.

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[kclenden]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

I would doubt ISY would even offer that selection for a trigger event only type device

I am able to add a STATUS event for my MS II into an IF statement.  Since the MS II can be configured to send both ON and OFF commands, the ISY should have no trouble determining whether its status is ON or OFF.

Edit: Just configured my MS II to send both ON and OFF commands with a 30 second timeout.  Triggered it and looked at the Admin Console and its status was ON.  Thirty seconds later without me doing anything, the status changed to OFF.

[larryllix]

I am able to add a STATUS event for my MS II into an IF statement.  Since the MS II can be configured to send both ON and OFF commands, the ISY should have no trouble determining whether its status is ON or OFF.
Edit: Just configured my MS II to send both ON and OFF commands with a 30 second timeout.  Triggered it and looked at the Admin Console and its status was ON. 

Interesting! I guess it could be useful as a filter in a compound logic statement or to simplify occupancy testing.

Most have formerly disabled 'off' reporting to save battery power and allow ISY to do the time out logic.

Thanks.



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[Techman]

14 hours ago, kclenden said:

I am able to add a STATUS event for my MS II into an IF statement.  Since the MS II can be configured to send both ON and OFF commands, the ISY should have no trouble determining whether its status is ON or OFF.

Edit: Just configured my MS II to send both ON and OFF commands with a 30 second timeout.  Triggered it and looked at the Admin Console and its status was ON.  Thirty seconds later without me doing anything, the status changed to OFF.

If your timeout is set to 30 seconds then your IF statement will reevaluate when the sensor switches  off. The THEN statement won't complete due to the 2 minute wait prior to turning the lights off.

Put your THEN statement into a second program and have the first program call the THEN statement of the 2nd program. The second program will complete even if the sensor turns off after 30 seconds..

[kclenden]

7 hours ago, Techman said:

If your timeout is set to 30 seconds then your IF statement will reevaluate when the sensor switches  off. The THEN statement won't complete due to the 2 minute wait prior to turning the lights off.

Thanks, but I only set the timeout to 30 seconds to test whether the ISY kept track of the MS II status changes.  Likewise, the third condition in the IF was merely added as a test.  In normal operation, the timeout is set to 10 seconds (to keep sensing motion) and the MS II is not configured to send OFF commands.  With that setup the program works just fine and the 2 minute wait resets when motion is detected so that the scene OFF command is only executed after 2 minutes of no motion.

[ENCJP]

Sort of still on topic but a bit more MSII behavior-specific... have you guys had issues with it not consistently waking up and sending commands to ISY?  About 75% of the time it responds and turns on the light in the scene.  The other 25% of the time, I can wave my hands in front of it and it does nothing.  After it doing nothing, I can pass by it later (5 - 10min) and it works as it should.  

[Techman]

6 minutes ago, ENCJP said:

Sort of still on topic but a bit more MSII behavior-specific... have you guys had issues with it not consistently waking up and sending commands to ISY?  About 75% of the time it responds and turns on the light in the scene.  The other 25% of the time, I can wave my hands in front of it and it does nothing.  After it doing nothing, I can pass by it later (5 - 10min) and it works as it should.  

The motion sensor senses changes in temperature, not motion. i.e. when a person walks across the sensor's field of view it detects the difference between the person's body temperature and the temperature of the surrounding environment.  There should be a sensitivity adjustments under the device options in the ISY if you're using ISY 5.x.x firmware.

 

[ENCJP]

Here's the behavior I'm seeing

 

[Techman]

 

Can you post a copy of the program that turns on the light via the motion sensor.

What options do you have set for the sensor?

 

[ENCJP]

I have it setup as just a scene controller... no programming at this point.  The sensor settings are out of the box except for changing the Motion>Report to On & Off.

[kclenden]

5 hours ago, ENCJP said:

Here's the behavior I'm seeing

How long have you had the MS II?  Any chance the battery is low?  Assuming the section of video with you waving your hand is continuous, the LED is not acting like mine does.  I have a "timeout" of 10 seconds.  After the LED flashes once, it won't flash again for 10 seconds.  According to the Options screenshot you posted, your "timeout" is set for 30 seconds.  I wouldn't expect the LED to flash again for 30 seconds after it first detects motion.  Though you said that the only thing you changed out of the box was Motion>Report, so it's possible that the ISY is just showing the default "timeout" and not how your MS II is actually set.  Still, the minimum "timeout" is 10 seconds, so I wouldn't expect the LED to flash any more than every 10 seconds and yours definitely flashes more like every 3 seconds.

[ENCJP]

I got it last week... it's possible the battery that came with it has drained, but unlikely.  The first part of the video is in one take (continuous).  If I watch the sensor while being out of its range, the LED does not flash.  It seems to only flash when it detects motion.  I think that the sensor is detecting motion but sometimes is not communicating it to ISY.  Another thing I've observed is that sometimes it will leave the light on - rather than turn it off after no motion for 30 seconds.  When it does this (leaves the light on), later I can pass through and observe that the LED flashes when it sees me - 30 sec later it will turn it off.

I don't see any "misses" in the ISY Log.  Every time the MSII tells ISY that its status is "on", the lights in that scene are set to "on".  Every time that the MSII tells ISY that the MSII status is "off", the lights are set to "off".

 

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, ENCJP said:

I don't see any "misses" in the ISY Log.  Every time the MSII tells ISY that its status is "on", the lights in that scene are set to "on".  Every time that the MSII tells ISY that the MSII status is "off", the lights are set to "off".

Then perhaps the issue is communication related.  The MS II is an RF device that depends on a powerline device to hear and pass on its communication (unless it's close enough to the PLM).  What is the closest dual-band device to the MS II?  If you start the Event Viewer and set it to Level 3, when you see communication from the MS II, how may "Hops Left" are there?  If it's directly communicating with the PLM, it would be 3.  If it's relying on another device to pass on its message then "Hops Left" would be 2.  If they are consistently 1 or 0 then you have a communication issue.

You also might try factory resetting the MS II.  Remove the battery; hold the set button and reinstall the battery; continue holding the set button until the MS II stops beeping; when the reset is done the MS II will double-beep.  Then put the MS II in set mode (hold the set button until the LED starts blinking) and perform a Device Restore from the ISY.

[ENCJP]

The PLM is the closest device to it.  When I run the Event Viewer - thanks for that tip btw - It shows 3 Hops left.  I'll try a factory reset on the MSII next.  I also have an unopened one I'll try if this one doesn't fall in line.

[ENCJP]

So far so good after doing the reset and restore.  Thanks!