Managing Complex Scenes

[chris932]

My ISY is starting to get littered with a bunch of individual command. For e.g. I have several outside lights with 5 minute ramp rates set to go to 10%, wait 5 minutes, go to 20%, wait 5 minutes etc through a program. With the ramp rate the delay between individual commands isn't really noticeable but it's starting to become too hard to decipher and adjust. I think it would be better just to have some scenes such as All Outside Flood Lights 10%, All Front Lights 20%, etc.

However I want to setup some small buttons on KeypadLincs throughout the house to indicate the status of certain outside lights. When these lights are on the button's indicator should be on, and when the outside lights are on the button's indicator should be on. Furthermore, the button should always have control of the outside lights including dimming and it should happen in sync (e.g. if I have a Flood Lights button I should be able to press and hold to dim/brighten the flood lights). Complicating things is that I want a program to run at say 1 AM to turn off some flood lights and dim others so that at night there's not too much light coming through the windows.

Another situation that's pretty annoying is my bedroom. I have a ceiling light attached to a KeypadLinc, a desk lamp on an OutletLinc, and I just switched over the two bathroom lights to some old single band SwitchLincs I had laying around. What I would like to happen is the big All Off button on the KeypadLinc turns everything off in sync, currently I have a program to manage this and what happens is I press all off and the ceiling light turns off, then the table lamp turns off after 0.7 seconds, then after another 0.5 seconds the first bathroom light turns off, and finally after another delay the last bathroom light turns off.

Ideally this would be setup as follows:

Big top button of KeypadLinc turns on the ceiling light only

Big bottom All Off KeypadLinc button turns everything off in sync

Small bathroom button on KeypadLinc illuminates when either bathroom light is on, even if it's turned on from the bathroom SwitchLinc
Small bathroom button on KeypadLinc when pressed on turns on only main bathroom light
Small bathroom button on KeypadLinc when pressed off turns off all bathroom lights

Is this sort of complex scene possible?

[lilyoyo1]

All of that is possible just not simple. It'll take a multitude of programs and scenes to make it happen. Personally Id simplify things alot more but it can be done

[larryllix]

As per lilyoyo1 above, this can all be done. Keep your programs short and simple, one for each job and concept that can affect the outcome. Make sure your programs are named with very thought-out and meaningful names, as in any programming sport. Put groups of programs that affect one 'item' in folders so you don't get confused from clutter later.

[chris932]

I'm playing with it but I can't seem to get anywhere.

I have 

KeypadLinc -- Main room lighting

OutletLinc -- Lamp

SwitchLinc -- Bathroom #1

SwitchLinc -- Bathroom #2

 

How can I add everything into a scene so that when I press All Off on the KeypadLinc everything turns off in sync, but when I press the KeypadLinc On button only the KeypadLinc load turns on?

 

[lilyoyo1]

18 hours ago, chris932 said:

I'm playing with it but I can't seem to get anywhere.

I have 

KeypadLinc -- Main room lighting

OutletLinc -- Lamp

SwitchLinc -- Bathroom #1

SwitchLinc -- Bathroom #2

 

How can I add everything into a scene so that when I press All Off on the KeypadLinc everything turns off in sync, but when I press the KeypadLinc On button only the KeypadLinc load turns on?

 

There's different ways to do this depending on your end game. Some are much more detailed than others. How do you currently have things configured?

At the very basic level, you simply add all devices to your all off scene as off. The kpl will still control the load is attached to and everything will turn off when you hit your all off button.

[chris932]

What's the best way to configure it? I'm not sure how I can make the big OFF button on a KPL be linked to a scene without linking the big ON button.

[palayman]

8 hours ago, chris932 said:

What's the best way to configure it? I'm not sure how I can make the big OFF button on a KPL be linked to a scene without linking the big ON button.

Not sure that you can.  You can write a program that links the Off control action of the button to turning off the other scenes.

[lilyoyo1]

If this were me, I'd remove the kpl from the isy, put it in 8 button mode and then re-add it back to the isy. You can find the instructions in the full manual on smarthome.com.

Once that's done, I would link the top 2 buttons together (as controllers) so that the light turns on regardless of whether A or B is pressed. I'd then link the bottom 2 buttons together in the same manner. Once done, I'd add all of the lights to it that I want off, as responders in the off position. 

This setup will allow the top to control the main Lights as currently configured and the bottom button will shut off all the lights. Should you only want the main lights on/off the top will allow that as well without turning anything else off.

 

[oberkc]

23 hours ago, chris932 said:

How can I add everything into a scene so that when I press All Off on the KeypadLinc everything turns off in sync, but when I press the KeypadLinc On button only the KeypadLinc load turns on?

That would have to be a program.  There is no way to create a scene that only responds to OFF commands.

Add everything (not including the "all off button") into a scene, all as responders.  Write a program:

if

all off button is switched off

then

turn off everything scene.

else

nothing

[kclenden]

On 3/13/2019 at 11:50 AM, oberkc said:

That would have to be a program.  There is no way to create a scene that only responds to OFF commands.

But couldn't you create a scene whose ON level for every device is 0% (or OFF)?  Then when the scene is turned ON everything is turned OFF.  And when the scene is turned OFF everything is turned OFF.  So even though the scene is responding to both ON and OFF commands it's acting like it's receiving OFF commands.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, kclenden said:

But couldn't you create a scene whose ON level for every device is 0% (or OFF)?  Then when the scene is turned ON everything is turned OFF.  And when the scene is turned OFF everything is turned OFF.  So even though the scene is responding to both ON and OFF commands it's acting like it's receiving OFF commands.

I remember hearing years ago, a scene that turns a device Off will turn it  back on when you turn the scene off. I have never tried it. I do  use Off scenes though.

[kclenden]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

I remember hearing years ago, a scene that turns a device Off will turn it  back on when you turn the scene off. I have never tried it. I do  use Off scenes though.

That would be very strange.  I can't even come up with a theory as to why that would happen.  Now I'm gonna have to try it.  ?

[lilyoyo1]

7 hours ago, kclenden said:

But couldn't you create a scene whose ON level for every device is 0% (or OFF)?  Then when the scene is turned ON everything is turned OFF.  And when the scene is turned OFF everything is turned OFF.  So even though the scene is responding to both ON and OFF commands it's acting like it's receiving OFF commands.

Yes, that is what I was instructing you to do

[oberkc]

7 hours ago, kclenden said:

But couldn't you create a scene whose ON level for every device is 0% (or OFF)?

Besides suspecting that this is not the response being sought ("only the connected load turns on"), part of the discussion clarified "without linking the big on button".

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

Besides suspecting that this is not the response being sought ("only the connected load turns on"), part of the discussion clarified "without linking the big on button".

If he puts the kpl into 8 button mode and creates a scene with A&B together as well as G&H, he can get the 6 button look with separate controls. 

He could then add everything he wants to turn off with the bottom button as responders set to turn off. 

[oberkc]

26 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If he puts the kpl into 8 button mode and creates a scene with A&B together as well as G&H, he can get the 6 button look with separate controls. 

Indeed.  Great idea.

[palayman]

37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If he puts the kpl into 8 button mode and creates a scene with A&B together as well as G&H, he can get the 6 button look with separate controls. 

I thought that was what he was trying to do all along.

 

[lilyoyo1]

29 minutes ago, palayman said:

I thought that was what he was trying to do all along.

 

I thought so too but he says he's not so I left it alone.

[chris932]

8 button mode sounds like it could work... I've already played with it on a 3d printed 4 wide button KPL (it was a nice idea, but where do I find buttons that say something other than On, Off, or No?)

[lilyoyo1]

51 minutes ago, chris932 said:

8 button mode sounds like it could work... I've already played with it on a 3d printed 4 wide button KPL (it was a nice idea, but where do I find buttons that say something other than On, Off, or No?)

Gotta order custom buttons

[redridge]

After some extended experimentation I am doing all 28 keypadlincs with physical 6 button layouts defaulted to 8 button.  Gives you two primary, 4 secondary functions, and breaks up the monotony and eye strain of the 8 button.  Avoid the relay version unless absolutely required, since you have to invert them if you want the top paired buttons to have dim capability (and re-invert each button, you can't just invert the bezel as the reset button won't clear the obstruction).

The one instance (so far) where you can't get both paired buttons (underneath the wide button) to light in unison is the off-only, but I really don't mind it since it gives you a quick double flash beneath one of the buttons before it goes back to it's normal backlit-off state.