Alternative to Fanlinc?

[drich]

Has anyone come up with an alternative to Smarthome's Fanlinc? I am in the process of replacing some older ceiling fans and want to add controls to them, but am having mixed results with the newer generating of Fanlincs. To date I've had flickering with LED lamps, one fan where the Fanlinc will reboot itself if I turn on the lights, and another Fanlinc that appears to have been wired improperly internally (Smarthome replaced that one). 

I'm starting to think it's time to give up on the Fanlinc, but to date I haven't found anything else with the same functionality. Most of these fans only have a hot and neutral wire in the box, so short of doing quite a bit of rewiring I don't have the option of controlling them with a pair of switches. I haven't seen much on the market that will install in the fan canopy and allow non-proprietary control. Has anyone else found anything?

[markv58]

There is a nodeserver being worked on to use a Raspberry pi with an inexpensive transmitter to control your standard radio add on remote control. I'm not certain when it will be ready for release but it appears to be operational. 

[lilyoyo1]

Depending on setup, you can use a relay and dimmer switch to control your fan. If you have separate switches for the lights and fans (and dont change fan speeds) then simply using a relay will accomplish the task. 

In my next home, (except for guest rooms) this is how I plan to proceed. In the time ive had my fanlincs, they only go to the medium setting. No point in spending the time and money on something thats not used.

[johnjces]

I have an Insteon micro on-off and micro dimmer that fits a bit better in my fan's ceiling cup than the fanlinc, which IMHO is not top shelf. I found that with the fan I have set to high, as it should be, and the fanlinc on low, I barely get any breeze. On Medium it blows too hard and high seems just under high speed without the fanlinc.

Since I rarely change fan speeds, the on off controls the fan and of course the dimmer for the lights.

Works better and seems to fit the space better.

John

Edited April 15, 2019 by johnjces

[Gregrsatx]

I'm a beginner, so I expect some criticism regarding MY work around.

My outdoor fan would not work with two separate FanLinks.  I have a two gang box, so I put a 2334-2 (5-button KeypadLink) on one side and a 2475DA1 (InLineLinc Dimmer) on the other with a cover plate.  The InLine dimmer is wired directly to the fan.  I use the four middle buttons on the KeyPad to control the fan speed via the InLine dimmer.

Hi -- Dimmer 100%

Med - Dimmer 60%

Low - Dimmer - 30%

Off - Dimmer 0%.

This has worked well for me but I'm not sure if it follows "best practices."

I'm still learning!

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, Gregrsatx said:

I'm a beginner, so I expect some criticism regarding MY work around.

My outdoor fan would not work with two separate FanLinks.  I have a two gang box, so I put a 2334-2 (5-button KeypadLink) on one side and a 2475DA1 (InLineLinc Dimmer) on the other with a cover plate.  The InLine dimmer is wired directly to the fan.  I use the four middle buttons on the KeyPad to control the fan speed via the InLine dimmer.

Hi -- Dimmer 100%

Med - Dimmer 60%

Low - Dimmer - 30%

Off - Dimmer 0%.

This has worked well for me but I'm not sure if it follows "best practices."

I'm still learning!

 

Using a dimmer on a fan can damage both devices

[Gregrsatx]

Thanks for the feedback.  Should I assume that if my fan is not FanLinc compatible, I can't control it with an Insteon solution?

Thanks

[lilyoyo1]

How is it not compatible?  I know you said 2 didn't work but that doesn't say anything. How was it installed and programmed?

I would think if a dimmer works the fanlinc would be compatible as well which would mean something wrong with either how it was wired or programmed

[drich]

Something seems to have changed lately with the FanLinc, the last few I have ordered have different wiring from the older ones (the wires coming from out of the case are in a different order) and I have have had one DOA, two that won't control the fan light properly, and one that died after a few days in use. My older FanLinc modules work fine with the same fans. In my case it isn't programming, out of the box they didn't work properly, even using the buttons on the FanLinc. I'm about to go for my 2nd round of RMAs with my latest ones.

I've reached the point where I'm starting to wonder how long Smarthome will be around with their nearly constant sales, outsourcing of support, and lack of people who know their own products working for them. I just haven't found a replacement for some of their products like the FanLinc and KeypadLinc so I'm somewhat stuck at the moment. Meanwhile I have two fans that I can't get working as I only have a single hot and neutral wire running to them and no good way to control them. And since we do use both the speed control and dimming, the options are limited.

[lilyoyo1]

28 minutes ago, drich said:

Something seems to have changed lately with the FanLinc, the last few I have ordered have different wiring from the older ones (the wires coming from out of the case are in a different order) and I have have had one DOA, two that won't control the fan light properly, and one that died after a few days in use. My older FanLinc modules work fine with the same fans. In my case it isn't programming, out of the box they didn't work properly, even using the buttons on the FanLinc. I'm about to go for my 2nd round of RMAs with my latest ones.

I've reached the point where I'm starting to wonder how long Smarthome will be around with their nearly constant sales, outsourcing of support, and lack of people who know their own products working for them. I just haven't found a replacement for some of their products like the FanLinc and KeypadLinc so I'm somewhat stuck at the moment. Meanwhile I have two fans that I can't get working as I only have a single hot and neutral wire running to them and no good way to control them. And since we do use both the speed control and dimming, the options are limited.

Directly pushing the buttons (except for the light) on the fanlinc won't work for safety reasons. It must be linked to another device in order for it to work. Without details one can only speculate (which is a moot point since that's not what the posting is about) what may be going on. 

In regards to the fanlight, what kind of bulbs were you using? Did you try with incandescent? I keep a few incandescent bulbs just to verify operability as differences in leds can lead to different experiences.

[drich]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Directly pushing the buttons (except for the light) on the fanlinc won't work for safety reasons. It must be linked to another device in order for it to work. Without details one can only speculate (which is a moot point since that's not what the posting is about) what may be going on. 

In regards to the fanlight, what kind of bulbs were you using? Did you try with incandescent? I keep a few incandescent bulbs just to verify operability as differences in leds can lead to different experiences.

The FanLincs in question are linked to my ISY994i, and I would swear the light button works just fine on the local device - but I don't really feel like ripping a fan canopy apart to check at the moment.

I've tried multiple brands of LED and the incandescents the fan came with. I have a nice collection of various brands after trying to fix a flickering issue on two of the fans that have newer FanLincs, they would flash on any Insteon traffic on the network. This isn't a unique problem, I've seen several posts on this issue on various forums, for example: 

For these fans (Westinghouse Comet) turning on the light with the pull chain causes the FanLinc to reset -- most of the time. Fast On will work, so will using the fader to dim the light up from 0%, although at some percentage it will put the FanLinc into a reset loop. The only way to fix that it so turn off the light with the pull chain. Once the light is off, the FanLinc goes back to normal. I've gone through three rev 3.1 FanLincs so far with no luck. This is actually progress, as the first two would reset even with Fast On. However the older FanLincs (the ones that with the wires going white/black/red/blue) work fine. The newer ones (white/blue/red/black) all have issues with the lights in these fans. The motor control works perfectly however. And of course the light works fine when wired directly to a wall switch with the FanLinc out of the loop.

Smarthome is stumped, although I've only spoken to their front-line support who honestly doesn't even seem to know what the products are. I miss the days when the support was down in Irvine, CA and they had people who actually knew the Insteon products...

[lilyoyo1]

12 hours ago, drich said:

The FanLincs in question are linked to my ISY994i, and I would swear the light button works just fine on the local device - but I don't really feel like ripping a fan canopy apart to check at the moment.

I've tried multiple brands of LED and the incandescents the fan came with. I have a nice collection of various brands after trying to fix a flickering issue on two of the fans that have newer FanLincs, they would flash on any Insteon traffic on the network. This isn't a unique problem, I've seen several posts on this issue on various forums, for example: 

For these fans (Westinghouse Comet) turning on the light with the pull chain causes the FanLinc to reset -- most of the time. Fast On will work, so will using the fader to dim the light up from 0%, although at some percentage it will put the FanLinc into a reset loop. The only way to fix that it so turn off the light with the pull chain. Once the light is off, the FanLinc goes back to normal. I've gone through three rev 3.1 FanLincs so far with no luck. This is actually progress, as the first two would reset even with Fast On. However the older FanLincs (the ones that with the wires going white/black/red/blue) work fine. The newer ones (white/blue/red/black) all have issues with the lights in these fans. The motor control works perfectly however. And of course the light works fine when wired directly to a wall switch with the FanLinc out of the loop.

Smarthome is stumped, although I've only spoken to their front-line support who honestly doesn't even seem to know what the products are. I miss the days when the support was down in Irvine, CA and they had people who actually knew the Insteon products...

The light button will work locally as there's no safety issue if it is turned on. Just the fan buttons themselves won't work.

How do you have the fanlinc and wall switch wired? The reason I'm asking is because of the reset. If the fanlinc is wired with constant power from the switch it shouldn't reset by the pull chain. Have you tried an older unit in those fans to see if behavior matches? What about the newer in existing locations that are working with older stuff?

[drich]

52 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The light button will work locally as there's no safety issue if it is turned on. Just the fan buttons themselves won't work.

How do you have the fanlinc and wall switch wired? The reason I'm asking is because of the reset. If the fanlinc is wired with constant power from the switch it shouldn't reset by the pull chain. Have you tried an older unit in those fans to see if behavior matches? What about the newer in existing locations that are working with older stuff?

The latest fan (the one I'm currently fighting with the FanLinc) is just a 2-wire install with the switch controlling the power. The old fan that is being replaced had a remote, so that's all it needed when the prior owner of the home installed it. That switch is going to get replaced with a KeypadLinc if I ever get the FanLinc working reliably, so the switch will be out of the circuit at that point.

You're correct, the FanLinc shouldn't reset -- hence the problem. It doesn't appear to be losing power, it looks more like something is causing it to reset like it's detecting a short. However, an old FanLinc doesn't have the same issue with this fan. It also does the same thing with a different light kit (from the same model of fan) installed. Personally, I think the latest generation of FanLincs have horrible QA, as this isn't the first time I've had to go through multiple ones to get one that works.

[Gregrsatx]

I agree that the FanLincs are sub-quality, but back to my set up.

 

My outdoor fan is meant to work with a manual dimmer, which adjusts the voltage of the load sent to the fan, which determines the fan speed.  Why is an Insteon InLine dimmer any different?  My 6 button  WallPlate’s load is wired to the Fan’s light and controls it perfectly.  The four middle buttons on the WallPlate represent; Hi, Med, Low, & Off settings for the fan speed.  I have a scene setup for each of the four speeds, and the scenes include the InLine dimmer at different speeds (voltages across the load line).  Obviously, the load wire from the InLine dimmer is connected to the Fan’s power line.  This has worked flawlessly for 6 months.

[lilyoyo1]

Its your home and fan. Theres plenty of information provided online and on these forums about the dangers of using a triad based dimmer with a motor so I won't go into the details of why not here. Due to the safety issues involved, I definitely wouldn't tell the op or anyone this is a good path to take. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by lilyoyo1

[redridge]

LOL.  I had 3 ceiling fans, a two speed whole house vent, and a two speed bath fan in my old X-10 setup.  Took a lot of gang spaces but the relay-dimmer combos worked great.  Now after a 50% failure of Fanlincs with my new Insteon system I am beginning to look back at the old method.  Here is a picture of my JDS TC+ controlled three speed setup.  Fortunately had plenty of room to hide this stuff (and still do if going back to this method using Insteon relays).

Of my four new Fanlincs one won't make medium speed nor shut off, and another won't make high speed and hums half the time on the other speeds.  What's alarming is these symptoms took a week or so to develop so you just never know if they are going to last I guess.  Two seem to be stable.

 

I have to say though, coming from my old system, I am absolutely blown away by the reliability of the rest of the stuff.  And the way you can pile on the controllers and responders in a house full of 30 Keypadlincs is phenomenal.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by redridge

[larryllix]

Are fanlinks not just another triac based dimmer used with a motor, and why they cause humming and burn out frequently?

 

OTOH, fanlincs may have some built in noise suppression in an attempt to make them more suitable for motor applications.

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[redridge]

51 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Are fanlinks not just another triac based dimmer used with a motor, and why they cause humming and burn out frequently?

 

OTOH, fanlincs may have some built in noise suppression in an attempt to make them more suitable for motor applications.

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

If they were just a little beefier.  I still have some Lightolier gang-mountable 3 speed scene controlled fan units around somewheres....I never got around to putting them in as what works works, but I wish Insteon had something like that with a little more current carrying capacity.   Another thing I like about gang-mountable is that in a metal box environment you rid yourself of the pesky ground wire requirement (on the switch itself, at least last time I checked the code).  That's why I was so disappointed to see that they took the mounting tabs off the in-line lincs.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by redridge

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Are fanlinks not just another triac based dimmer used with a motor, and why they cause humming and burn out frequently?

 

OTOH, fanlincs may have some built in noise suppression in an attempt to make them more suitable for motor applications.

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

The light control portion is triac based. The fan uses capacitors to step down the power sent to the fan

[Gregrsatx]

18 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Its your home and fan. Theres plenty of information provided online and on these forums about the dangers of using a triad based dimmer with a motor so I won't go into the details of why not here. Due to the safety issues involved, I definitely wouldn't tell the op or anyone this is a good path to take. 

Thanks for the input.  Like I previously mentioned, I'm new to this and appreciate constructive criticism.  

[lbiffle]

Something seems to have changed lately with the FanLinc, the last few I have ordered have different wiring from the older ones (the wires coming from out of the case are in a different order) and I have have had one DOA, two that won't control the fan light properly, and one that died after a few days in use.

Has anyone opened old and new FanLincs to see if the change in colors is valid? Did they accidentally start building with colors in a different order, and now we’re all connecting them wrong, and frying them?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

The internal photos of the original FanLinc  are in the FCC Database. Schematics where not made public.

It looks like they have four triacs in it and two AC rated capacitors. My thoughts are one of them is for the light control and is a typical dimmer circuit. The others switch the AC capacitors  into and out of the fans feed to control its speed.

[drich]

46 minutes ago, lbiffle said:

 

Has anyone opened old and new FanLincs to see if the change in colors is valid? Did they accidentally start building with colors in a different order, and now we’re all connecting them wrong, and frying them?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

That was what I thought when I first received one of the new ones. However, the installation sheet that comes with them has been updated to still show red for the fan motor, blue for the fan light, and white and black for hot/neutral. And I do have two of them that work fine - although one of them is an RMA since the original one was DOA.

[DaveStLou]

I'm in a situation where I need to replace a fan on our deck and I'm considering alternatives to FanLincs. I have two fans that have been running FanLincs for a over a year but prior to that I went through at least 4 or 5 RMA'd replacements before I got these two.

In my bedroom I have the luxury of a separate set of wires for the fan and light going to the switchbox so I used GE Zwave there. Good performance but not without issues as the pilot light is not programmable on the fan controller and it glows a little more than I like in a dark bedroom.

So I too am interested in alternatives. Has anyone had any experience with Bond https://bondhome.io using off-the-shelf remote controlled fans?

[drich]

I just updated my open ticket with Smarthome, after taking my fan canopies down (all but one I can't get to w/o moving furniture) and it's consistent -- all four of my old FanLincs work fine. Both the two I purchased recently and the two RMA units all show the same issue. The old ones are all labeled "0912 REV1.1" and the new ones are a mix of "3.1 4118" and "3.1S 3418". The old ones show up as v.41 in my ISY, the new ones as v.45.

• The fan control works fine
• The light control works with fast-on/fast-off
• Sending an Insteon on command will cause the FanLinc to reset when the light reaches around 30-40% brightness (tested by setting the ramp rate to 8.5s and counting between 3-4 sec before the FanLinc resets). If I have the ramp rate at 0.1s, the light will flicker for an instant before it resets.
• If I use the start with the light off and use the brighten Insteon commands, I can get to just past 30% before the FanLinc goes into a reset loop. The only way to fix that is to use the pull chain on the fan to turn off the light so I can then turn it off in the FanLinc once it has reset itself.

I'm assuming there has been a hardware change as well, as looking at the FCC photos there is virtually no way they could get the new wiring pattern of white/blue/red/black with the original circuit board. I wish I could open these up to get photos of the internals and see what has changed, but since they are all likely to be RMAed I don't want to void the warranty by opening them.