motion sensor 2 Motion Sensor 2 need more info!

[keribi]

I am currently on 5.0.15A and just started using a 2844-222 Motion Sensor 2 and found there there is a lack of information on implementing the device with the ISY 994i. I found a couple threads on some of the settings and usage but nothing like a wiki.  Would like to know how to properly configure the device in the options dialog. I set most of the settings I am familiar with but just not sure on some of the values that are entered by default. I have the MS2 activating a scene to turn on the kitchen light (LED fluorescent tubes) for 5 minutes then turn off.  The problem I am having is that sometimes  when motion in the kitchen continues the wait time in my program times out and does not get reset then light turns off. I guess it could be a RF comm issue with no access points or dual band devices close enough. Will have to do some testing with the event viewer.  I really would like to see a official UD Wiki on implementing the Motion Sensor 2 with the ISY 994i. Is the jumper inside the MS2 for sensitivity? How does this internal jumper relate to the sensitivity setting in the options dialog?  

[keribi]

No replies!   I guess there really is a lack of information on this device.

[Gouldc]

For what it's worth I'm feeling your pain. I'm still on version 4.x for the simple fact that 5.x has been in beta for longer than I can remember - will they ever move it into production?

I've been trying to even link mine for well over 3 hours. A very frustrating experience to say the least. I managed to get one working but the device settings are completely unresponsive. A pretty useless device at this point if you can't even control the timeout.

Argh!

[larryllix]

If you are using a scene you should probably delete the Set Fluorescent light on line to avoid any signal competition  possibilities.

[Randy Ide]

Your settings look fine for the M2.  Although if you don't have anything else you more complicated you are trying to do, it might be simpler to just use a scene rather than a program. You would need to add the M2 as a controller, change report "on only" to report "on&off", and set your timeout to 5 minutes.  Also agree that you should look at the event viewer and try to see if you are having signal issues.  

To follow up on larryllix comment, I have started to use a slightly different approach in my motion programing to reduce the traffic and potential traffic jams.  I've created separate programs for turning on vs turning off so you don't have the traffic associated with setting the light to on over and over again when it is already on.   

Turn On

If 

    Motion Sensor is Switched On
    And Status Light Off

Then 

    Set Light On
  <optionally Stop Program Turn Off>

Turn Off

If

   Motion Sensor Status is Off

Then

   Wait 5 Minutes
   Set Light Off

 

Have you used the older generation Motion Sensors and if so how do like the new version?  

[Randy Ide]

@Gouldc Yeah, I went to 5.x when 5.15 came out so I could finally use the M2.  You really can't do much with the M2 on 4.x.  Although, personally I have not been that impressed with M2 motion range detection and sensitivity compared to the older versions.  I found it is fine for hallways and smaller rooms, but still ended up keeping the older versions in larger rooms for occupancy sensing use cases.  BTW Insteon support told me 1 is least sensitive and 255 is the most sensitive setting for motion detection for the M2. They also said the jumper doesn't do anything, but I read on an Insteon forum that it connecting the pins reduces sensitivity. 

I'm still search for the best sensor for occupancy sensing in low activity rooms. So far I like the latest version of ZooZ (z-wave) for its ability to detect small movements and respond quickly.  I can't tell you how painful it is for me if lights go out on my spouse  

[Gouldc]

I appreciate your feedback. I’ve been tossing almost weekly on whether to move to V5 - it’s the thought of reprogramming years of fine tuning that’s kept me away. 

How was you experience programming the Zwave sensor on ISY? I’ll check them out and thanks again.  

[Randy Ide]

The move to v5 by itself wasn't too bad but at the same time I decided add some z-wave.  Honestly, the z-wave stuff has been a PITA with some devices having various compatibility issues.  Once I made sure I had sufficient coverage for z-wave plus repeaters I have not had issues with the Zooz motion detectors.  I don't know yet if the z-wave issues I'm having are related to 5.x or the specific devices.  

As for the upgrade to 5.x, the programing changes I made were related to motion detection and related how quickly the lights come on.  This was mostly self inflected and a labor of love.   In 4.x I had motion detectors directly linked to lights as you have and was using the adjust scene in programs to adjust on levels at various times of day.   In 5.x, after I made the required changes to the adjust scene, I realized the ISY was trying to write to motion detectors every time the scene was adjusted.  They are battery operated so the writes failed, but technically the on levels did change because the change is on the responder side.  This issue probably existed in 4.x but I just didn't notice.  So then I moved to controlling Lights On through programs and addressed the delayed on situation a little differently.    I added sensors and programs to "pre-light".   As an example if I come down the hallway leading to the kitchen, then the kitchen lights come on at 30%.  If I don't actually go into the kitchen within a minute then turn the lights off.  

I spent a whole bunch of time working out all the logic, motion sensor placement, etc but only because this is a hobby.  There is probably a better way to do all this but I was in it for the fun. 

If you don't have the need for any more complicated logic or not in it for hobby, then my recommendation would be to stay with what you have.  If you love to tinker, then clear a weekend an dive into 5.x.  Read through the documentation carefully, backup, export you programs, etc.   I recommend taking screen shots showing with programs are enabled and disabled as you will need that info.  Make sure you manually disable any previously disabled programs after the upgrade.  Also recommend taking screen shots of any programs using Adjust Scene.   Most my programs converted just fine other than those with Adjust Scene.  Comments where automatically inserted into programs that had adjust scene and they were left unsaved after the migration.  It wasn't too hard to figure out from the comments that were inserted how to recreate the adjust scene lines.   I only had one z-wave device prior to migration so I just reset the z-wave dongle to factor default before the migration and started setting up z-wave from scratch after the migration.

[Gouldc]

Thanks for the detailed response. I think I’ll hold off for now until I have a clear runway to dive into it. Unfortunately there’s a ton going on at the moment and working through an upgrade at the moment would be frustration, not enjoyment.

I guess I’ll have to revert to the Stone Age and use the light switches for now   

[Randy Ide]

Or consider picking up the original motion sensor from e-bay or try a z-wave if you have the ZW card. Prior to whole upgrade "fun" I was using a z-wave ceiling mount motion detector from Enerwave. I had it positioned so it would capture motion just a couple feet into the hall as I entered the kitchen.  There was still a slight delay as the motion detector triggered the program and the program set the light to on, but the placement of the motion detector helped to mitigate the lag.   Also I theorized that using the z-wave for the motion detector vs insteon cut down the communication lag as you didn't have to wait until the motion detector communication cleanup to cleared before setting the light to on.  I don't know if this is actually true, but it did seem faster than using the Insteon motion detector with the same program.  Adding a simple, single function motion detector to 4.73 was pretty straight forward. 

[ELA]

Getting a little overdue for some information on this sensor!

Several people have asked where is the wiki and I have yet to see a response from ISY folks?     Please forgive if I have just missed it.

I understand it was not intended to read temperature ... but what about light sensitivity settings?    A higher number is more light required to see it as day?

Why is there both a day and night setting?   Is there some grey area inbetween?

I would prefer not to have to experiment with adjusting values and then tripping the sensor to activate a write updates program too many times over several nights.

[paulbates]

Udi has been clear for several years that they’d include the ms II based on provided specs and popular demand to include it. They can’t make the sensor work.

This discussion needs to be taken up where it belongs.

[Randy Ide]

1 hour ago, paulbates said:

Udi has been clear for several years that they’d include the ms II based on provided specs and popular demand to include it. They can’t make the sensor work.

This discussion needs to be taken up where it belongs.

@paulbatesMS II works for me on .15a.  I'm only using the motion detection.  I can't speak to the temperature or light level but I do see the reports in the admin console.  I see the full range of Options under Options.  

[ELA]

20 hours ago, paulbates said:

Udi has been clear for several years that they’d include the ms II based on provided specs and popular demand to include it. They can’t make the sensor work.

This discussion needs to be taken up where it belongs.

Very helpful ...

Do you own a MS II?

I do not expect UDI to make Smarthome hardware work any different than it does.    Simply to explain what the settings in ISY software do or do not do.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, ELA said:

Very helpful ...

Do you own a MS II?

I do not expect UDI to make Smarthome hardware work any different than it does.    Simply to explain what the settings in ISY software do or do not do.

I own a few of them. Some of the information is on Insteons website in the full owners manual. 

Unfortunately insteon does not always provide information to a company for them to develop a manual. UDI can take the information provided in the documentation in order to get the motion working but doesn't necessarily mean they have the information to say exactly what something does. Hell their own manual doesn't even cover all that the motion sensor does so it's hard to blame UDI for something that probably wasn't provided to them.

Personally I like to test devices to see how they operate but I can understand how some people have no desire to find out how their devices function. The best place in lue of testing the different options would be to email smarthome/insteon to provide the information that you are looking for

[keribi]

Thanks for all the responses!   Lots of good info.

[keribi]

larryllix  I tried what you recommended on adding the MS2 to a scene vs a program. MS2 seems much more responsive and reliable, Thanks.

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, keribi said:

larryllix  I tried what you recommended on adding the MS2 to a scene vs a program. MS2 seems much more responsive and reliable, Thanks.

Great! Glad it worked for you.
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