Blackbird Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 I was curious how many have already ordered the Polisy and which one they bought
larryllix Posted June 23, 2019 Posted June 23, 2019 The price isn't going to get any better and if it does, we may be in trouble down the road. Help support UDI Promote future development of new product More hardware signal security NOT going through more cables and routers. Faster CPU speed for future logic handling. Faster hardware and firmware port support for heavier HA home load. Possible future elimination of the PLM with Insteon development of a better product. Why would SH continue to make a problem serial port devices? Welcome to 1990. Open architecture computer on PolyGlot side, closed architecture on ISY side in the same box. PolISY Pro vs. PolISY? Less connectors to oxidise and cause intermittents. Less time so I can concentrate my time on other tech developments. Cheaper upgrade price during prepurchase. 1
giesen Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 I bought the Pro. Didn't want to take a chance that I needed bluetooth later and couldn't add it. That and price likely won't get any better...Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk
giesen Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/23/2019 at 10:54 PM, larryllix said: Possible future elimination of the PLM with Insteon development of a better product. Why would SH continue to make a problem serial port devices? Welcome to 1990. Only option might be the USB PLM, but doubt that solves the reliability problems and slightly increases complexity. Serial is still huge in the building automation space (think RS485) because it's simple and reliable... it just works.I use it on a daily basis in my day job...Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk
larryllix Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) On 6/24/2019 at 12:30 AM, giesen said: Only option might be the USB PLM, but doubt that solves the reliability problems and slightly increases complexity. Serial is still huge in the building automation space (think RS485) because it's simple and reliable... it just works. I use it on a daily basis in my day job... Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Expand I used serial for equipment maintenance in the Electrical Utility grid also but even though the utilities are decades behind it was being quickly replaced in 2008 when I left. I even created serial port networks for POS terminals in the 1980s. I thought there was PLM USB dongles out there? If the Hub continues it should have the double bridge interface replaced at some time. Either way why would SH continue making the serial port PLM? Nobody else uses it, and this may especially be the case if Apple gives SH a bigger byte of their seeds. Edited June 24, 2019 by larryllix
giesen Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 I don't think the Insteon Hub uses a PLM at all (either USB or Serial), so if they were to discontinue one they may discontinue the other. A lot of other smaller projects use the PLM, and what it really comes down to is if SmartHome wants to give up sales of Insteon products for people who won't use their hub and force those people to go Z-Wave. I think it would be foolhardy considering the minimal costs of continuing to offer & support the PLM (all the R&D is done, the injection molds are made, etc). Also, I'd wager the third-party Insteon user's average spend on Insteon products is much higher than people using the hub. They're generally more technically-inclined, and are more aggressive when it comes to automating their home, as opposed to someone buying a few plug-in modules or bulbs. That being said, if their HomeKit gamble pays off and they can drive huge volumes out of those same plug-in modules, they may decide that the enthusiast market is not worth the trouble. That and Z-Wave is making huge strides with functionality, compatibility, and breadth of products, effectively eating their lunch... Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk 2
apostolakisl Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 I don't think Insteon is in a position to discontinue the PLM until they haven't sold anything that uses the PLM for at least 5 years. With SH selling multiple software packages and ISY on their own website, they are obliged to continue to provide access to PLM's for a while. I'm sure there would be a lawsuit if they tried to stop providing what amounts to an essential "part" for products that they sell, especially considering the typical life span of that part. Now if SH only sold the PLM and none of the products that use the PLM, it would be different.
larryllix Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 3:34 AM, apostolakisl said: I don't think Insteon is in a position to discontinue the PLM until they haven't sold anything that uses the PLM for at least 5 years. With SH selling multiple software packages and ISY on their own website, they are obliged to continue to provide access to PLM's for a while. I'm sure there would be a lawsuit if they tried to stop providing what amounts to an essential "part" for products that they sell, especially considering the typical life span of that part. Now if SH only sold the PLM and none of the products that use the PLM, it would be different. Expand I didn't think SH has any products that use a serial port PLM.
asbril Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 1:06 AM, larryllix said: if Apple gives SH a bigger byte of their seeds. Expand translation please....... What is supposed to occur between Apple and Smart Home ?
larryllix Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 7:24 AM, asbril said: translation please....... What is supposed to occur between Apple and Smart Home ? Expand If the SH and Apple IoT connection would have ben more successful SH could have stopped manufacturing the serial based PLM and hung UDI fans out to dry. You may have noticed, UDI does not have all it's eggs in one basket anymore.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 2:37 AM, giesen said: I don't think the Insteon Hub uses a PLM at all (either USB or Serial), so if they were to discontinue one they may discontinue the other. A lot of other smaller projects use the PLM, and what it really comes down to is if SmartHome wants to give up sales of Insteon products for people who won't use their hub and force those people to go Z-Wave. I think it would be foolhardy considering the minimal costs of continuing to offer & support the PLM (all the R&D is done, the injection molds are made, etc). Also, I'd wager the third-party Insteon user's average spend on Insteon products is much higher than people using the hub. They're generally more technically-inclined, and are more aggressive when it comes to automating their home, as opposed to someone buying a few plug-in modules or bulbs. That being said, if their HomeKit gamble pays off and they can drive huge volumes out of those same plug-in modules, they may decide that the enthusiast market is not worth the trouble. That and Z-Wave is making huge strides with functionality, compatibility, and breadth of products, effectively eating their lunch... Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Expand The hub has the plm built inside which is why it doesn't need to have a separate plm. Insteon had always had it's own software while having an avenue for third party companies to speak to insteon devices. I highly doubt that would change for 1 system. Home kit was always another revenue stream. It was never going to be a replacement for any system. If that was what they wanted, insteon would have pushed much much more for it to be relevant then what they did. I'm not sure why people are assuming the worse about insteon's intentions. There has not been a single piece of evidence throughout their history that shows they are even remotely interested in not having some type of plm. 1
lilyoyo1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 10:48 AM, larryllix said: If the SH and Apple IoT connection would have ben more successful SH could have stopped manufacturing the serial based PLM and hung UDI fans out to dry. You may have noticed, UDI does not have all it's eggs in one basket anymore. Expand UDI is a business and businesses exists first and foremost to make money. Not having all their eggs in 1 basket has nothing to do with smarthome wanting to cancel their plm. Its smart business as well as survival which is why they chose to move beyond support for only insteon. This is like saying they're abandoning insteon and zwave because of Polisy and the need to support IOT devices. UDI got insteon for all that it was worth. With the multitude of multi-technology controllers how does it look for them to only talk to insteon while the competition talked to mutiple technologies. It only makes sense for them to add additional technologies to the mix. This business plan shows even with Polisy. As more users are using network capable devices, they can't solely focus on insteon and zwave. Users want their Ecobee, Sonos, hue, nests, etc to be included in their systems. What does UDI do...they evolve as any good business would do and will continue to do so
Brian H Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 #2. Maybe incorrect. I voted NO on #1. I still had to pick a model in #2 even though there is none being ordered.
larryllix Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 12:22 PM, lilyoyo1 said: UDI is a business and businesses exists first and foremost to make money. Not having all their eggs in 1 basket has nothing to do with smarthome wanting to cancel their plm. Its smart business as well as survival which is why they chose to move beyond support for only insteon. This is like saying they're abandoning insteon and zwave because of Polisy and the need to support IOT devices. UDI got insteon for all that it was worth. With the multitude of multi-technology controllers how does it look for them to only talk to insteon while the competition talked to mutiple technologies. It only makes sense for them to add additional technologies to the mix. This business plan shows even with Polisy. As more users are using network capable devices, they can't solely focus on insteon and zwave. Users want their Ecobee, Sonos, hue, nests, etc to be included in their systems. What does UDI do...they evolve as any good business would do and will continue to do so Expand UDI does not control SmartHome. That is a lot of confusion to what I posted.
giesen Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 11:38 AM, lilyoyo1 said: The hub has the plm built inside which is why it doesn't need to have a separate plm. Insteon had always had it's own software while having an avenue for third party companies to speak to insteon devices. I highly doubt that would change for 1 system. Home kit was always another revenue stream. It was never going to be a replacement for any system. If that was what they wanted, insteon would have pushed much much more for it to be relevant then what they did. I'm not sure why people are assuming the worse about insteon's intentions. There has not been a single piece of evidence throughout their history that shows they are even remotely interested in not having some type of plm. SmartHome was originally going to supply chips or firmware to allow UDI to manufacture it's own PLM due to the ALL ON bug as well as reliability problems with the PLM. That arrangement was yanked halfway through the process (without explanation AFAIK), which is enough to give anyone pause as to SmartHome's intentions around supporting third-party platforms.Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk 1
lilyoyo1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 I'm speaking on speculating about smarthome's intentions and why udi is no longer insteon only. No UDI doesn't control insteon but assuming the moves they make is due to Insteon potentially cutting them off makes no sense. Every choice they've made is sound business decisions and nothing in insteon's history says they have any intentions of cutting out the plm or 3rd party stuff to warrant mentioning it.
apostolakisl Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 4:14 AM, larryllix said: I didn't think SH has any products that use a serial port PLM. Expand It doesn't matter who makes the device (ISY, Indigo, whatever), they sell it. And if they sell you a device and then turn around and make it non-functional by withholding the PLM from you, they would be challenged. Probably would be forced to either make the part (plm) available or sell the rights to someone else to make it.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 1:34 PM, giesen said: SmartHome was originally going to supply chips or firmware to allow UDI to manufacture it's own PLM due to the ALL ON bug as well as reliability problems with the PLM. That arrangement was yanked halfway through the process (without explanation AFAIK), which is enough to give anyone pause as to SmartHome's intentions around supporting third-party platforms. Sent from my SM-N9500 using Tapatalk Expand While we all would love for UDI to make their own stuff we DON'T know why it was pulled. The fact that it happened years ago diminishes that argument as well. If their intentions were to go against them or cut someone off, it would have happened by now as they've had plenty of opportunities to do so. If anything due to Insteon history of control, one can assume they simply didn't want the chip out in the wild so to speak
Brian H Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 The prototype UDI PLM was made ready for preliminary tests. Waiting for Smarthome to fulfill its promised chips and firmware. That they backed out of. I personally blame the old owners of Smarthome for this!!! 1
larryllix Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 2:11 PM, Brian H said: The prototype UDI PLM was made ready for preliminary tests. Waiting for Smarthome to fulfill its promised chips and firmware. That they backed out of. I personally blame the old owners of Smarthome for this!!! SH didn't show any responsibility for that user punch in the gut. 'You may have noticed, UDI does not have all it's eggs in one basket anymore.' I think the disagreement is over some words that never happened and no derrogatory phrases were ever used against any business. I merely pointed out things could have gone bad for us ISY users and UDI advanced their technologies for our benefit. Businesses have no morals and should never be trusted.
asbril Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 10:48 AM, larryllix said: all it's eggs in one basket Expand egg on my face..... I did not know that Smarthome (Insteon) had a connection to Apple. 1
asbril Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 5:38 PM, asbril said: egg on my face..... I did not know that Smarthome (Insteon) had a connection to Apple. Expand Driving through Normandy (France) this week, it is probably omelette on my face. 1
lilyoyo1 Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 5:38 PM, asbril said: egg on my face..... I did not know that Smarthome (Insteon) had a connection to Apple. Expand It's not a major connection. They came out with a hub for home kit when it first came out
simplextech Posted June 24, 2019 Posted June 24, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 10:34 PM, lilyoyo1 said: It's not a major connection. They came out with a hub for home kit when it first came out Expand I thought the HomeKit Insteon Hub had been discontinued??? Are they reviving it? I see it can be purchased on SmartHome.com but is it the older version or some new one? I wonder if they have also updated firmware along with their new app to fix whatever issues they had???
lilyoyo1 Posted June 25, 2019 Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 11:54 PM, simplextech said: I thought the HomeKit Insteon Hub had been discontinued??? Are they reviving it? I see it can be purchased on SmartHome.com but is it the older version or some new one? I wonder if they have also updated firmware along with their new app to fix whatever issues they had??? Expand It still sucks but they are supposed to be re-doing it. I'm not sure when the new version will be released though 1
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