IndyMike Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Illusion, Previously you were not getting low battery warnings - Correct? If so, were you using standard alkaline batteries previously? This could be a case where the discharge characteristics of the lithium batteries allow the low battery announcement to function properly (battery source resistance). I did finally get a low batt warning. I had just put long life lithium batteries in all my detectors. After about a week I got a low batt warning from one of the units. It appears that it killed the battery by not going into sleep mode. Version 1.0B Link to comment
Algorithm Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Illusion, Previously you were not getting low battery warnings - Correct? If so, were you using standard alkaline batteries previously? This could be a case where the discharge characteristics of the lithium batteries allow the low battery announcement to function properly (battery source resistance). I did finally get a low batt warning. I had just put long life lithium batteries in all my detectors. After about a week I got a low batt warning from one of the units. It appears that it killed the battery by not going into sleep mode. Version 1.0B Agreed, the battery type could make a difference. Especially if Illusion was not getting the warning previously with the alkaline batteries. On the other hand, version 1.0B seems to ring a bell; it might be the beta version, which did give the warning. The sleep mode problem would indicate this. So, Illusion, is it a beta motion sensor, and/or did you previously have/not have warnings with alkaline batteries? Link to comment
nstein Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I have a 1.0B with a GP super alkaline battery, it came with, that gave me a low battery warning. Even though the battery didn't last as long as I would like or as long as my other motion sensors (another 1.0B, and one 1.1), it lasted a lot longer than the beta unit which was exchanged by Smartlabs. -Nick Link to comment
Algorithm Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I have a 1.0B with a GP super alkaline battery, it came with, that gave me a low battery warning. Even though the battery didn't last as long as I would like or as long as my other motion sensors (another 1.0B, and one 1.1), it lasted a lot longer than the beta unit which was exchanged by Smartlabs. -Nick Nick, thanks so much for the additional data point. My 1.1 also was using the original GP super alkaline that came with it, yet didn't give a low battery warning. So from this it would seem that 1.0B does provide the warning and 1.1 does not, even with the same battery type. At least so far as this limited data set shows. We could still use some more data points. Link to comment
Illusion Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 So, Illusion, is it a beta motion sensor, and/or did you previously have/not have warnings with alkaline batteries? If it is a beta, it is not by choice. I have 7 of these, most were purchased when they became available without pre-ordering. I have never had a successful low batt warning before this incident. I had, until recently, been using the GP alkalines. 1 month ago I had a detector die unexpectedly with no warning. I replaced the battery with a long life lithium battery and about a week later it was dead as well. It apparently did not go to sleep even though it had been fine for 6 months prior to that. That was replaced by Smarthome. Then about 2 weeks ago when the replacement arrived I put a lithium in it and I changed all the other units to lithium batteries. A week goes by and I get a low batt notification from a detector that had never had issues before that. I have put an included GP alkaline in that detector, factory reset it, pressed its on button several times and did some current testing that seems to show it going successfully to sleep. We will see if it goes to sleep or kills this new battery. I was unwilling to sacrifice yet another expensive lithium 9V on a chance. Link to comment
Algorithm Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Illusion thanks so much for the additional data. Version 1.0B may not be beta, though some of them seem to have (or develop?) the sleep problem. It now seems also that some 1.0Bs issue the low battery warning, while others do not, even with the same battery type. We have yet to hear from someone with a rev. 1.1 that issued a low battery warning. Link to comment
Algorithm Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 When I spoke to Smarthome about this, they indicated that the "documented" battery low indication was the "double flash" of the led. Sure enough, my units double flash when the battery is getting low. The battery low communication to the ISY is apparently issued sometime much later (and typically after the communications have broken down). Indy, thanks for reporting this. I think your analysis is correct. BUT, I do not buy into Smarthome's statement. The web page shows, and it always has been documented, that the two low-battery warning signals (ON to group 3, and double-flashing LED) are production features of equal weight. It would be nice to hear from Steve Lee about the group 3 command. Link to comment
IndyMike Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Indy, thanks for reporting this. I think your analysis is correct. BUT, I do not buy into Smarthome's statement. The web page shows, and it always has been documented, that the two low-battery warning signals (ON to group 3, and double-flashing LED) are production features of equal weight. It would be nice to hear from Steve Lee about the group 3 command. OK, now I'm miffed. I did buy into this as an "undocumented feature". There isn't a word about it in the quick start guide, and there is no full users manual that I can find (including the Wiki). I have to admit, I normally gloss over the web page as I've found it to be a great source is misinformation in the past (load ratings and such). What a SAP I was. Thank you for arming me with the correct information. I can see another conversation when the next battery goes down. IM Link to comment
Algorithm Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Indy, sorry if it caused any discomfort ! Just to add a bit of information; it was also documented in the beta version for the beta testers, of which I was one, and there was discussion about it in the beta forums as well. Right at the moment I can't seem to find said documentation, but if the documentation didn't exist, there is no way Michel would have incorporated the group 3 feature into ISY's firmware. If I do find it I will try to let you know. Link to comment
IndyMike Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Darrell, Don't be sorry. My comment was in no way aimed at you. On the contrary, the discomfort was entirely of my own making. After convincing myself that this was an undocumented feature, I launched into the before mentioned test sequence to define the conditions under which the battery function worked. All that, when the feature was plainly stated on the web page. What a dope. Link to comment
Illusion Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hi guys, Interestingly, as I was performing my current draw test to see if I should put that last battery sucking detector back in the system, I got several more notifications of low battery as I made and broke battery connections by hooking up and changing ranges on my meter. My notifications are based on control, not status. Link to comment
Illusion Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 A very interesting idea. Unfortunately in my case I would also like the majority of the sensors to only function at night, again to save battery energy and network transmissions. So I would like the sensor to still be able to tell dusk/dawn. I would like to have a jumper where it does not transmit this condition, very much like the On only jumper. The unit still has a time-out value, it just does not transmit the Off command. Does anyone have experience with a comparison of battery life in the detector if it is set to detect motion always instead of at dark? Most all of my motion activated programs are night only (I do not use direct links between the detectors and any other device), but I have thought of some cool programs that could run only when the 'Away' condition is set. Like having a radio or TV turn on if any of the detectors outside detect motion, even during the day. I had thought that the less I allow the detector to xmit, the less juice used. But I have noticed that the detectors detect motion always no matter what, they just do not xmit this if the night only mode is set and it is bright out. So if the detector is coming out of sleep no matter what, how much more power does it really take to xmit this. This feature is not really worth it to me if it kills the batts twice as fast. Any thoughts? Link to comment
drfunmetal Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I have not had good experiences with the 2420 M. The good news is that the low battery sensors do work and do send signals and trigger programs. The bad news is that my unit goes through batteries like my GTO went through a tank of gas. The sensor indicates that the battery is low and the unit stops functioning! My simple battery tester says both are good, and my amprboe indicates that the "dead" batteries are generating 8 volts each. The ISY-99 does allow one to reset the off time which is a great thing, although the ISY doesn't alway see the 2420. I believe it may be a conflict with Avast antivirus. Sorry I don't have any solutions. I spoke with smarthome and they offered to warranty them out. We shall see what happens. Link to comment
ResIpsa Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 The original alkaline battery that came with one of my 1.0B motion sensors just died without giving a low-battery report to ISY. Didn't notice if the LED was double-blinking. The battery has been in the unit for several months, but the unit was only installed about a month ago. Prior to that it sat in a drawer, where I hope it didn't see much motion at all. Link to comment
Illusion Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 A very interesting idea. Unfortunately in my case I would also like the majority of the sensors to only function at night, again to save battery energy and network transmissions. So I would like the sensor to still be able to tell dusk/dawn. I would like to have a jumper where it does not transmit this condition, very much like the On only jumper. The unit still has a time-out value, it just does not transmit the Off command. Does anyone have experience with a comparison of battery life in the detector if it is set to detect motion always instead of at dark? Most all of my motion activated programs are night only (I do not use direct links between the detectors and any other device), but I have thought of some cool programs that could run only when the 'Away' condition is set. Like having a radio or TV turn on if any of the detectors outside detect motion, even during the day. I had thought that the less I allow the detector to xmit, the less juice used. But I have noticed that the detectors detect motion always no matter what, they just do not xmit this if the night only mode is set and it is bright out. So if the detector is coming out of sleep no matter what, how much more power does it really take to xmit this. This feature is not really worth it to me if it kills the batts twice as fast. Any thoughts? I have answered this question myself now at: http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... 3871#23871 Link to comment
CJVann Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 CJVann and Illusion, could you let us know the revision of your motion sensors (on the label in the battery compartment)? Thanks so much. Has anyone actually received a low-battery warning from a production motion sensor, and if so what version/revision? Darrell: All mine are Rev 1.1. Three are in night-only mode and drain batteries within weeks. None have ever given a low battery signal to the ISY. (Using Duracell Coppertop Alkaline) Link to comment
Algorithm Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 CJVann and Illusion, could you let us know the revision of your motion sensors (on the label in the battery compartment)? Thanks so much. Has anyone actually received a low-battery warning from a production motion sensor, and if so what version/revision? Darrell: All mine are Rev 1.1. Three are in night-only mode and drain batteries within weeks. None have ever given a low battery signal to the ISY. (Using Duracell Coppertop Alkaline) CJVann, thanks for the additional information. You should certainly call Smarthome and have them replace those sensors which are draining batteries! So far, no one has reported reliable low-battery indications from rev. 1.1 sensors, then? Link to comment
wrj0 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thought I'd throw in my $0.02: My Rev 1.1, 2420M Motion Sensor, "4908" was installed on 17-Jan-09, with all jumpers at factory default. It's been working fine on the same battery since installation. So, although there's a program set to report the low battery, I don't know if this rev 1.1 motion sensor will report a low battery condition or not...yet. Link to comment
Algorithm Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Thought I'd throw in my $0.02: My Rev 1.1, 2420M Motion Sensor, "4908" was installed on 17-Jan-09, with all jumpers at factory default. It's been working fine on the same battery since installation. So, although there's a program set to report the low battery, I don't know if this rev 1.1 motion sensor will report a low battery condition or not...yet. Hello wrj0, thanks for the input. Please do let us know when the battery needs replacing, whether or not a low-battery indication was sent. Link to comment
CopyRon Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 One of my batteries failed the other day. The lamplinc it controls would come on normally with motion, go off in one minute as it should and then about two minutes later would come back on and stay on. After checking everything and restoring the lamplinc, I thought it had gone wacky, I replaced the battery in the motion sensor. Problem solved. No low battery warning showed up anywhere. This was the original battery. Link to comment
Illusion Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Successful Low Battery notification. #2420 Rev 1.0B Duracell Alkaline Battery at 7.9V Link to comment
Algorithm Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Successful Low Battery notification. #2420 Rev 1.0B Duracell Alkaline Battery at 7.9V Hi Illusion, So it appears that some 1.0B sensors do give a low-battery warning while others do not. Still no reports of a revision 1.1 sensor giving an indication, though. Link to comment
gjfrater Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Sounds like you guys pretty much have this figured out and my one and only motions sensor seems to fit what you already know. So just for the record. 2420 rev 1.1, battery lasted just over a month (using included alkaline) NO low battery alert was sent/received. -GregF Link to comment
wrj0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 The original battery in my my Rev 1.1, 2420M Motion Sensor, marked "4908" finally died. No Low Battery status was provided by the sensor. Great battery life from the sensor installed Jan-09; just wish the Low Battery status indication worked. Link to comment
sorka Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 None of my 4 rev 1.1 sensors have ever given the low battery indicator, but I've only been through one set of batteries in a year. I just installed the second set when I realized one of the sensors was no longer working. When I checked ISY for the low battery indicator, it was simply blank as was the rest of the status indicators for that motion sensor. Link to comment
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