Any luck with 2420M low battery indication?

[wrj0]

"Does your startup program call a series of programs to start watchdog timers desired each time the ISY is restarted?"

 

For the case of the Motion 1 Detect program, an init program calls its ELSE at startup to kick off the 24 hour timer. Really shouldn't be necessary if the detector senses motion or Dawn/Dusk conditions each day.

[ELA]

My first battery failure did show up in the ISY as a low battery. The battery measured 7.2V.

 

I have now had another IR sensor go low battery without it showing in the main ISY status screen as low battery.

Nothing found in the log, but the long was only 2 months in duration so it might have reported earlier and got lost.

 

What I am not really very happy about is it demonstrated its low battery by constantly going on/off every 10 minutes from midnight till dawn.

 

As a second data point this battery measured 6.0V when this occurred.

( it had gotten down to 16F that night as well)

 

I have now added programs with notifications for each sensor to trap for any future low batteries. My hope is that there is a low battery indication (maybe only one) a good amount of time before it begins to flake out. The minimal data I have might support that?

 

If I happened to notice the first failure near the point at which it sent the low battery warning. Perhaps on the second unit it had been running for 2 months or more from the 7.2V - 6.0V battery level. The report message was lost when I did a purge of the earlier log?

 

It should be nice to have that early warning notification if it works.

[ELA]

Does anyone know what the msg string is that is sent by the 2420M for the low battery indication?

 

I purchased a new R2.0 , 2420M recently. Before installing it I have been testing it on the bench trying to get it to send the low battery msg.

I have been unable to get it to send anything other than the on/off commands.

 

When I lowered the supply voltage I would start to get erratic operation at just below 4.5Volts. At that level I could readily get it to begin sending repeated on/off commands (every 30 seconds, with the timeout set to 30 secs).

 

I was curious if anyone knew the string to expect should it send a low battery indication?

[LeeG]

A Low Bat is a Group 03 On. It will look similar to the following trace entries

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.69.A7 00.00.03 CB 11 03 LTONRR (03)

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [standard-Group][14.69.A7-->Group=3] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [ 14 69 A7 3] DON 3

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [ 14 69 A7 3] ST 255

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.69.A7 00.00.03 CB 11 03 LTONRR (03)

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [standard-Group][14.69.A7-->Group=3] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.69.A7 00.00.03 CB 11 03 LTONRR (03): Process Message: Ignored

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:26 PM : [standard-Group][14.69.A7-->Group=3] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:27 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.69.A7 19.70.06 41 11 03 LTONRR (03)

 

Thu 01/05/2012 08:57:27 PM : [standard-Cleanup][14.69.A7-->ISY/PLM Group=3] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

This message does not repeat. Only 1 Low Bat message is sent.

[matapan]

I'm using the latest version of the motion sensor now. Three of them. Has anyone experienced any erratic behavior of the motion sensor under very low voltage, real world conditions, or does the unit simply stop working when the battery goes flat?

 

I would prefer having the sensor not send any ON/OFF commands randomly when the battery goes low, instead simply stop sending ON/OFF commands altogether when the device cannot run correctly with the voltage available.

[LeeG]

Unfortunately they do odd things when the battery is low. False motion messages, missed motion messages are two I have seen with a low battery.

[ELA]

Thank you LeeG,

That will be very helpful.

 

Is the msg log information you provided from a past occurrence you saved, or can you readily reproduce the message via bench testing?

[LeeG]

I can create the Low Bat message. I have a 3 AA cell battery holder that I attached a 9 volt snap connector. By using some old AA batteries that I accumulate waiting to take a pile to the recycle center, I can find some with voltage low enough to trigger the Group 3 message.

[ELA]

Thanks for that additional information LeeG,

 

I ran quite a few tests using a power supply with a variable voltage as well as a variable internal resistance simulation to no avail.

I may have missed the message though as I was unsure what to look for. I am pretty sure all I got was group 01 on/off commands but I will try again now that you have showed me what to look for.

 

Do you happen to know if the unit has to already be awake to recognize the low battery or if it can wakeup on a low battery condition?

When I tested I made sure to wake it up by introducing motion just to be sure.

[LeeG]

As far as I know with my testing the MS does not have to be awake. Applying a voltage low enough to trigger the Group 03 On but high enough to allow the MS to function.

 

When I originally tried my 3 battery test I did it with new AAA (not AA as I said before) batteries the MS did not send the Low Bat message. That is when I went to my recycle collection. Took a few tries but eventually found one when used with 2 new batteries generated the Group 03 On message. Happens within seconds of applying power. Voltage was near 4V when I got the message.

[ELA]

LeeG,

After your reply I realized that my problem was that I did not have the "02,& 03" groups linked. I was not using the ISY or HL and so I had to use a terminal program with the "write all-link" and "manage all-link record" commands to link groups 2 & 3 into the PLM and the 2420M.

Once I got this setup I could then easily reproduce the low battery warning. As you said the MSensor does not need to be awake. Also as you said the warning was only sent once and required power removal and re-application to reset.

 

I performed the testing repeatedly and measured a threshold of ~6.85 volts.

This level will vary a small amount from unit to unit with part tolerances.

I traced the circuit and can see where a resistor divider from the battery input to a microcontroller pin is used for sensing.

 

The sensor continued to work ok down to less than 4.5 volts where it became erratic.

 

From this I feel comfortable that having ISY programs (w/notification) to detect that one message, when it is sent, should be a good way to detect the low battery in advance and to be able to avoid the nuisance on/off cycles that occur when the battery gets too low.

Thanks again for your help.

[ELA]

How exciting to receive a 2420M low battery notification in my email this morning!

I had added notifications to all my PIR sensors a while back when I changed most of the batteries.

I was really questioning whether or not I would ever actually get an email. I did this morning.

 

When I get a chance I will measure the battery level and replace.

 

 

Just as another data point for battery threshold information:

I woke up and polled the PIR sensor for config data and got a response of 7.3V. Measured the battery with a meter and it read 7.1V

[biredale]

I also got one about a week ago, did not measure the battery however. Blind faith replaced.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

[junkycosmos]

Hi All

 

I have been using the program posted here by wrj0 for a few months now. What I have noticed though is inconsistent results. Sometimes I recieve reports sensor watch and other times I have not when batts have died. Looking for any ideas on what I have done wrong here please.

 

I do not understand why "SensorReport 0 in 24hrs DwnMotion2" program is showing as false.

 

My "Dwn Motion" sensor that looks to have died on 7/27

Choosing "Run If" on Sensor Report I get nothing and program stays false.

 

I did try resaving program and also tested run then which does send notificaiton

 

thanks for any suggestions

J

 

 

******

Program: SensorWatch DwnMotion

Enabled

LastRun Time: Fri 2012/07/27 01:29:02 AM

 

If

Control 'Sensors / DwnMotion-Sensor' is switched On

Or Control 'Sensors / SensorDusk / DwnMotion-Dusk/Dawn' is switched On

Or Control 'Sensors / SensorDusk / DwnMotion-Dusk/Dawn' is switched Off

 

Then

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

*******

 

Program: SensorReport 0 in 24hrs DwnMotion2

Enabled

Status False

 

If

Time is Last Run Time for 'SensorWatch DwnMotion' + 24 hours

And Status 'KeyPadLincs / JOffice.E' is not On

 

Then

Send Notification to 'J_All' content 'MyTemplate'

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

*********

[LeeG]

"If Time" is a onetime shot, triggering the Program at Last Run Time + 24 hours. The If will be True only for that instant when Time is Last Run Time +24 hours occurs and the KPL button is Off. If the KPL button happened to be On for that single occurrence of Time the Program would be False and will be False forever after that.

 

Running the If now will always be False because it is not Last Run Timer + 24 Hours when the If is running.

[junkycosmos]

thanks Lee!

 

Now I follow why my manual tests were not working. I did check back and found a single email alert from 7/28 when last report would have been 24 hours old. Hence indeed these programs are working exactly as they should.

 

For some reason my I was thinking they would repeat but I see now they would not. Any idea on a way to get the alert to repeat?

 

I did just check to see if I could set condition of last run time in a range but it does not appear work. Suppose what I am looking for is Last Run > X hours but I am not seeing an obvious method.

 

Thanks for the info on prior post and if you have any other suggestions here.

 

J