To be or not to be: Remove links or not to remove links?

[RichTJ99]

Hi,

 

I am in the midst of a reinstall of my ISY network. I am starting from scratch.

 

I have a strange combo in my setup. I have the PLC + Homeseer. I also have the PLM & ISY.

 

I dont mind if Homeseer gets out of sync & I will be taking the PLC offline shortly. I am looking to setup the ISY to see all my Insteon items.

 

I added one item, a Guest bedroom KPL. The A button is linked to a switchlinc in my attic. When I added the Guest Bedroom KPL, it found the attic device, which is pretty neat.

 

My question is if I should be removing links, adding links, etc.

 

What is the differences?

 

BTW, I am pretty sure I asked this the first time around (january 2009) but I cannot find that posting.

 

Thanks,

Rich

[RichTJ99]

A second question is if I add the links, say I want to keep all the devices & clear all links so I can recreate them fresh, is that something I can do?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Rich,

 

If you are starting from scratch, then please use either the first or the second option. My preference is the first option because it would take much less time (ISY does not have to read in all the records in your devices).

 

It's always best to start from scratch since in the majority of cases, there are half/orphaned links which would cause unexplained behavior down the road.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[RichTJ99]

When were talking about adding links, are the links actually scenes?

 

How do I erase all links once all my devices are added? I did do option 3, but I think its easy enough to recreate the scenes (I dont have that many).

[MikeB]

Yes, links between devices are referred to as scenes.

 

 

PERSONAL OPINION:

 

If I were moving to the ISY, I'd factory reset each device manually (to make sure no stray X10 addresses, etc.) and add them in by address or Start Linking, then recreate my scenes.

 

Otherwise, as Michel said, you end up fighting with half or broken links and spend more time troubleshooting than it would have taken to start froma clean slate. Creating scenes/links on the ISY is, IMO, so much easier than other methods.

[RichTJ99]

Michael,

 

While I dont have that many devices as compared to some, I probably have 40-50 of them. I have never used the X10 protocal on my Insteon devices, though I do have a W800 & some DS10A's & Hawkeyes in my setup, but in terms of X10 powerline traffic, I dont have any.

 

Is there a way to do a reset of hte devices through the ISY? Currently, the ISY has all my links/scenes. Do I just delete the scenes & the devices are clear?

 

Thanks,

Rich

[MikeB]

Hi Rich -

 

Again, please keep in mind this is my personal opinion.

 

When I moved to my ISY I had 70 or so devices, so I feel your pain.

 

The reason why I suggest a manual factory reset is that I have seen many instances of Insteon devices new out of the box come with X10 addresses pre-programmed, reportedly due to factory testing. I've seen many people experience problems because of this. Not only could this cause unintended operation, but also creates unneeded powerline traffic.

 

If you were 100% against doing a manual factory reset on each device, I would probably factory reset my ISY and add devices back in and choose the 'remove links' option. But, keep in mind that this does not remove any X10 addresses that might be in some devices.

 

Quicker and easier than removing all scenes from your current ISY config in my opinion.

 

One other thing - I have seen many people regreat not factory resetting their devices and starting from scratch, but I have never seen anyone regret doing it.

 

I think if you have a good idea of what you want for scenes, and maybe put it down on paper, you might be surprised at how fast you can factory reset everything and recreate your existing functionality.

[RichTJ99]

While SH isnt open yet. What is involved in factory reseting the devices? Is it just the tab you pull out for 30 seconds?

[MikeB]

You should check each device's owners manual, but typically it's:

 

in-wall: pull the tab for 10+ seconds, push tab completely in for 10 seconds, release

 

plug-in: unplug for 10+ seconds, hold button and plug in, hold button for 10 seconds & release

[Brian H]

On the sales pages for the switches and modules. You will find links to the complete users manuals. They are much better than the one sheet quick guides. The factory reset is covered in those manuals.

 

I believe the latest SwitchLinc Relays may now have a power disconnect switch on the set tab. Only the dimmer types use to have them. So the procedure maybe different if you have the newer Relay types.

[RichTJ99]

So, i should do a Factory Reset on the ISY, then do resets of all the insteon devices, then readd them all indivually to the ISY?

[MikeB]

That's what I would do, personally.

[RichTJ99]

I called smarthome & they said:

 

dimmers in wall - pull tab out for 10 seconds, push tab in for 5 seconds

On/Off in wall - press on for 10 seconds, to put it into set mode, push tab in for 5 seconds & its reset.

 

Strange.

 

On a side note, I have homeseer with teh PLC (usb), my understanding is the PLC cant write links, so I dont need to do anything with that.

 

If i used the PLC + Homeseer along with the ISY & PLM, that while the homeseer side may get out of sync, it should still all work.

 

Do I need to reset the PLM?

 

Thanks,

Rich

[MikeB]

Do I need to reset the PLM?

 

I would.

[RichTJ99]

How do you reset the PLM? I cant find the documentation here:

 

http://www.smarthome.com/2412S/PowerLin ... ial/p.aspx

[MikeB]

I believe it's the same as other plug-in devices - unplug for 30 seconds or so, hold set button down, plug back in, release set button after 10 seconds.

[21win]

I have a bunch (est 40) X10 switches 5-10 years old. I also have a bunch of new Insteon switches (approx 20) and soon 5 Insteon thermostats.

 

I am switching from HomeSeer/PLC to ISY99. Goal is thermostat support, faster/more-reliable performance, and eliminate need for Windows PC to run HomeSeer.

 

Mostly I just want some simple lighting control (i.e. Sunset/Night, turn off all basement lights with one switch, etc) plus some simple thermostat control (vacation mode, etc).

 

Questions:

 

1) You say to factory reset all switches. Does this include the X10's, or just the Insteons?

 

2) When I add the Insteon's back into ISY99, I bring up the linking box. Then do I walk around the house with a laptop, press all the switches and then do a giant remove links/1? If so, how do I keep track of which switch corresponds to which Insteon ID? If I add them one by one each remove links operation seems to take a long time.

 

3) If I understand correctly, EVERY 2 way switch setup in my house would have a Scene -- correct? And every single switch would be an Insteon Device? So I would have, for example, "DiningRm Chandelier Sw1", "DiningRm Chandelier Sw2" as devices, and "DiningRm Chandelier" as a Scene?

 

4) So the only truly manual work to do is: a) writing down/keeping track of the Insteon ID's, and renaming the devices, c) creating scenes for each 2-way switch pair, d) creating the true value-add Scenes (Sunset on, bedtime off, thermo adjust, control from KeyPadLinc's, etc) which seems REALLY easy once 1-c is done.

 

Any comments/answers/help on this would be really appreciated before I start my 70 device clean setup!

 

Thanks,

 

- Jon

[MikeB]

1) You say to factory reset all switches. Does this include the X10's, or just the Insteons?

 

Just the Insteon. I'm not very familiar with most X10 devices.

 

 

2) When I add the Insteon's back into ISY99, I bring up the linking box. Then do I walk around the house with a laptop, press all the switches and then do a giant remove links/1? If so, how do I keep track of which switch corresponds to which Insteon ID? If I add them one by one each remove links operation seems to take a long time.

 

You could add a bunch at a time then test with on/off commands fron the ISY to see which device is which. I personally keep a spreadsheet of devices, IDs, rev levels, etc. If you factory reset the device, it shouldn't take very long to add back in.

 

3) If I understand correctly, EVERY 2 way switch setup in my house would have a Scene -- correct? And every single switch would be an Insteon Device? So I would have, for example, "DiningRm Chandelier Sw1", "DiningRm Chandelier Sw2" as devices, and "DiningRm Chandelier" as a Scene?

 

Correct, and both devices would be CONTROLLERS of that scene.

 

4) So the only truly manual work to do is: a) writing down/keeping track of the Insteon ID's, and renaming the devices, c) creating scenes for each 2-way switch pair, d) creating the true value-add Scenes (Sunset on, bedtime off, thermo adjust, control from KeyPadLinc's, etc) which seems REALLY easy once 1-c is done.

 

Sounds good to me!

[21win]

Two more questions:

 

1) Scene links written to switches?

So say I do the factory-reset on all Insteon switches, then add them back to ISY99, then create Scenes in the ISY99.

 

Will the Insteon switches now also have the links programmed into them? So that, for example, 2Way switches will work even if the ISY99 for some reason goes down.

 

2) Internet access, port re-direction

I tried the Internet access and it works great, except for the security certificate. My question is what port does it use? Port 80? Does it do some sort of upnp to get my router to direct the port to the ISY99? It works but I am curious how. Also I plan to use a URL to map to this and probably need to understand a bit to do it right.

 

Thanks,

 

- Jon

[MikeB]

Yes - scenes are programmed into the devices themselves, so the ISY is not required for them to function. Programs DO require the ISY to function.

 

HTTPS is port 443 by default (though it can be changed if needed). Yes, our current "Enable Internet Access" uses UPnP to configure compatible routers. You can always create the port forwards manually if you'd prefer.

[21win]

I am at the tail end of a big X10/Insteon Lights/Thermostats upgrade, migrating from HomeSeer to ISY99. All going very well right now.

 

FYI I notice a BIG improvement in X10 reliability via the ISY99 vs. my old HomeSeer setup. Thus less pressure to replace lots of my old X10 switches with Insteon, though I have done about 20 already.

 

I have two questions about best practices in programming:

 

1) I want to turn on and off a group of lights at sunset and late-night. So I put all the lights into a scene "NightLights". Easily wrote programs to turn them all on at Sunset and off at say 11PM. BUT for multi-way switches (that already have their own scene to make the multi-way work), I could not add the multi-way scene to NightLights scene, so I just added one of the multi-way switches.

 

The light goes on and off just fine, but the other switch (say switch 2) in the multi-way does not update on/off.

 

Do I have to add all switches for each multi-way light to NightLights (i.e. sw1, sw2, etc)?

 

Or is there a better way?

 

2) KeypadLinc: Say I want to use a Keypadlinc button to turn on and off the "NightLights" scene. Should I add the Keypadlinc buttons to the scene? Or use the keypadlinc button as a trigger condition in a program (i.e. IF time is sunset OR keypadlinc button1 turned ON then turn on NightLights)???

 

I am concerned about being sure that the keypadlnc status is always in-sync with the scene.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

- Jon

[MikeB]

Do I have to add all switches for each multi-way light to NightLights (i.e. sw1, sw2, etc)?

 

Or is there a better way?

 

Ideally you should all devices to that "Nightlight" scene. You COULD, in the ISY program, have it turn off multiple scenes instead of 1 big scene - but because of your 2nd question, I would create 1 big scene.

 

2) KeypadLinc: Say I want to use a Keypadlinc button to turn on and off the "NightLights" scene. Should I add the Keypadlinc buttons to the scene? Or use the keypadlinc button as a trigger condition in a program (i.e. IF time is sunset OR keypadlinc button1 turned ON then turn on NightLights)???

 

I would add that button to the scene as a Controller.

[oberkc]

BUT for multi-way switches (that already have their own scene to make the multi-way work), I could not add the multi-way scene to NightLights scene, so I just added one of the multi-way switches.

I am not sure that I follow this statement. I have several programs which turn on and off scenes. Are you saying you could not find a way to use this program to set a scene to off?