What is the point of the ISY Finder?

[bretta]

Serious question.

If I want to open the admin console, I have to use this ISY Finder thing.  20% of the time, it opens with no info in it.  I then have to manually enter an IP address, complete with the http:// bullshit.  If the IP has changed, I have to run through various guesses until it agrees that there is an ISY at that particular address.  So why is it called a "Finder"?  Wouldn't a "finder" scan the network and find the IP address of any ISY on it?

Asking for a friend.

 

[larryllix]

Were you having problems today?

A major Internet outage occurred a few times and it may be cloud dependant.

 

This may be an indicator a firewall is blocking discovery.

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[bretta]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

Were you having problems today?

A major Internet outage occurred a few times and it may be cloud dependant.

This may be an indicator a firewall is blocking discovery.

This is an ongoing problem.  I have been running ISY for 3 or 4 years and this has been an issue since day one.  ISY Finder will never find anything unless I've already told it what IP to look for.     I will have to look into the firewall possibility

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by bretta

[Brian H]

Are you using the ISY Finder or the latest ISY Launcher?

You may want to read this thread on what the ISY Launcher does and if your version of firmware needs it. Like 4.7.3 needs it.

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/24381-isy-launcher/

[paulbates]

The purpose of the finder is to locate the ISY by a non IP ethernet frame using a very standard method. For this feature to work, the ISY and the PC using the admin console have to be on the same subnet eg 192.168.0.x. The finder sends the magix , the ISY on the same subnet should see it and respond. If that's not happening,  something's not right network wise. 

If I access the ISY from the outside of my house, I run into needing to manually enter its address in the finder and save it.

A couple of things to do:

• An appliance type device like the ISY should always maintain the same IP address. You can set a static IP address in the ISY under the admin console / configuration. Or... most routers allow you too assign IP addresses to specific devices via DHCP, so they always have the same. I suggest you do the router method, as you have an existing network of IP addresses and there's a change you could pick one that's taken... had to remedy that if it happens
   
• You shouldn't have to, but you can save the address of the ISY in the finder. If you set the address (first bullet above), and a blank finder window pops up and you enter the manual address... press the save button right away.
   
• Brian's suggestion above, to use the launcher... it pauses when it first comes up making it easier to enter and save your address the first time

To your point, its odd that this is happening. If the ISY and pc are on the same subnet, it should not happen, its using a very basic ethernet feature.

Paul

[bretta]

15 hours ago, Brian H said:

Are you using the ISY Finder or the latest ISY Launcher?

You may want to read this thread on what the ISY Launcher does and if your version of firmware needs it. Like 4.7.3 needs it.

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/24381-isy-launcher/

Thanks. I'll look into it.  I do not have 4.7.3.  That's another bug I have.  I cannot get it to install.

 

[bretta]

13 hours ago, paulbates said:

The purpose of the finder is to locate the ISY by a non IP ethernet frame using a very standard method. For this feature to work, the ISY and the PC using the admin console have to be on the same subnet eg 192.168.0.x. The finder sends the magix , the ISY on the same subnet should see it and respond. If that's not happening,  something's not right network wise. 

If I access the ISY from the outside of my house, I run into needing to manually enter its address in the finder and save it.

A couple of things to do:

• An appliance type device like the ISY should always maintain the same IP address. You can set a static IP address in the ISY under the admin console / configuration. Or... most routers allow you too assign IP addresses to specific devices via DHCP, so they always have the same. I suggest you do the router method, as you have an existing network of IP addresses and there's a change you could pick one that's taken... had to remedy that if it happens
   
• You shouldn't have to, but you can save the address of the ISY in the finder. If you set the address (first bullet above), and a blank finder window pops up and you enter the manual address... press the save button right away.
   
• Brian's suggestion above, to use the launcher... it pauses when it first comes up making it easier to enter and save your address the first time

To your point, its odd that this is happening. If the ISY and pc are on the same subnet, it should not happen, its using a very basic ethernet feature.

Paul

Every time I manually enter it, I save it.  But then next time the power goes out, the router issues a different IP to the ISY, and the "finder" is blank again.     Basically, the finder doesn't actually do anything.   If I've saved the IP in the "finder", then it is available for me every time I open the "finder".  Until the ISY gets assigned a different IP, and then the "finder" is empty again.     

I will see what I can do in my router to set a static IP for it.

Thanks

[simplextech]

Are you running any virtualization software on the computer you are launching finder from?  VirtualBox, Parallels, VMware etc?

[larryllix]

My ISY Finder always worked that way thorough multiple OSes, and years of different ISY versions. It never found my ISY and I always had to manually enter an IP address for ISY, every version.

ISY Launcher works better but is slower and is cloud dependant.

[bretta]

15 hours ago, simplextech said:

Are you running any virtualization software on the computer you are launching finder from?  VirtualBox, Parallels, VMware etc?

I am not.

 

[bretta]

My apologies for some slight mis-information.  I am running ISY Launcher, according to the desktop icon.  It opens the same old box I have seen for years and the box is titled ISY Finder.  

Not sure if that changes things. 

It's really just a rant/moot point anyway.  I have an Orbi router, so a simple check on the Orbi app tells me what the IP is for everything connected to it.

 

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, bretta said:

I am not.

 

Ok.  I've found with running VM software the Launcher/Finder doesn't know what interface to use for the broadcast which results in having no ISY's listed.

[paulbates]

VLANs can have the same effect. The discovery packet is not IP, so IP routers will drop it.

[mmb]

Can

On 8/10/2019 at 7:42 AM, paulbates said:

The purpose of the finder is to locate the ISY by a non IP ethernet frame using a very standard method.

Can someone expand as to what the very standard method is?

I have the same no IP problem using the ISY Launcher (start.jnlp) as well as the previous launcher.  Roughly 20% of the time it comes up blank.  I've been using an ISY for years and it's only in the year or so that this has been a problem.

The  problem is only on desktop PC, my laptop works perfectly every time.  My PC runs on two subnets 192.168.0.1 as the primary internet connection and 192.168.1.1 for a 10Gb ethernet connection to a video server (no gateway).

It's not a big deal but was wondering if this "very standard method" was sending the frame down the wrong pipe?

mike

[paulbates]

2 hours ago, simplextech said:

Ok.  I've found with running VM software the Launcher/Finder doesn't know what interface to use for the broadcast which results in having no ISY's listed.

VLANs or wireless networks with distributed wireless nodes with dhcp can have the same effect. The discovery packet is not IP, so IP routers will drop it and the ISY never gets the message.

Edited August 11, 2019 by paulbates

[paulbates]

 

4 hours ago, mmb said:

Can

Can someone expand as to what the very standard method is?

I have the same no IP problem using the ISY Launcher (start.jnlp) as well as the previous launcher.  Roughly 20% of the time it comes up blank.  I've been using an ISY for years and it's only in the year or so that this has been a problem.

The  problem is only on desktop PC, my laptop works perfectly every time.  My PC runs on two subnets 192.168.0.1 as the primary internet connection and 192.168.1.1 for a 10Gb ethernet connection to a video server (no gateway).

It's not a big deal but was wondering if this "very standard method" was sending the frame down the wrong pipe?

mike

It’s similar, but not identical to, wake on lan or subnet directed broadcast... and the initial discover request to the ISY being limited to the subnet the computer is connected to.

in your case, the laptop is very likely on the subnet the ISY is on, and the pc is not consistently broadcasting down the interface that the ISY is on. The router does not recognize the discover packet and drops it... that is the problem. There may be a way to solve it, but I don’t know what it is.

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by paulbates

[paulbates]

56 minutes ago, mmb said:

 

The  problem is only on desktop PC, my laptop works perfectly every time.  My PC runs on two subnets 192.168.0.1 as the primary internet connection and 192.168.1.1 for a 10Gb ethernet connection to a video server (no gateway).

It's not a big deal but was wondering if this "very standard method" was sending the frame down the wrong pipe?

mike

Maybe one of these works:

1- define and save the address in the finder and use that. The Admin Console should attempt to use tcp/ip to find the ISY at the predefined IP address when it’s on the wrong interface and you click on the predefined entry saved in the finder. You might have 2 entries sometimes when the computer is on the on the right subnet and ‘discovers’ the ISY. Inconsistent still, but maybe it will work.

2- can you bind an app on the pc to a specific interface? If the admin console can be bound to the interface for the network the ISY is on, that should do it.

Paul

Edited August 11, 2019 by paulbates

[robin71]

For what it's worth, I was having some problems using the ISY Finder not long ago.

The IP address of my ISY is always either configured with a static IP, or DHCP with an IP reservation configured on my router to always retain the same IP address. I either had to manually enter the IP address into the ISY Finder, or it would find the ISY if I typed: "HTTP://ISY" but the start.jnlp app would not work properly and the title bar of the ISY Finder would still say ISY not found (or something to that effect). I could right mouse click on the IP address in the ISY Finder and launch the Admin Console, but I would receive errors when trying to do things like backup the ISY.

Michel assured me it had to be firewall related, but I ruled out everything on my PC. Finally, I looked at my router's log file and noticed I had some rules written to the router's firmware by a Synology NAS that I could not change using my router's firmware. After performing a factory reset of my router the problem was solved!

Long story short, don't overlook your router. Good luck!

– Rob