James Peterson Posted September 5, 2019 Posted September 5, 2019 I have a Chamberlain garage door that has worked flawlessly for a while, but it has recently started opening by itself. I have an IOLinc attached to it. It seems to always happen around 30 min after sunrise. Not exact, sometimes a few minutes off plus +/-. I have replaced the IOLinc, replaced the PLM, removed or disabled any programs that are related and it continues to happen. If I unplug the IOLinc it stops happening so it has to be related to this unless it is just coincidence. I have checked the logs an no programs appear to be running at that time that would affect the IOLinc. No errors in the error log. Any ideas?
mwester Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 Do you have a yard light? Any other loads, on your lot or nearby that switch on or off at about that time of day? A marginal circuit on the long length of wire between the iolinc and the GDO, combined with the electrical characteristics of the iolinc, might be just the right thing to trigger the GDO to think you've pushed the button when it picks up some radiated electrical noise. One way to test might be to get a completely different cable (say, a length of gigantic romex -- something completely unlike the little micro speaker wire they often give you for the GDO buttons), and use that to temporarily replace the existing wiring (disconnect the existing wires altogether, both connections to the GDO). Often a different gauge wire with different electrical characteristics, following a different cable run, will change the noise pickup enough to figure out if that's a possibility. If that changes things, then first check the connections on the old cable, and use RF chokes at the GDO end on both conductors as a first step to cure. The noise might also be coming in via the GDO's power plug -- a good filter will address that, look for a power strip that advertises not just surge suppression, but also noise reduction. Ugly, but plug that in temporarily to see what changes, and then you can decide if you need to find something smaller/nicer or if that's not the problem.
paulbates Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 One thing that happened to me with my GDO in the random department. It took a long time to narrow down that it was happening with the attic dampers. Somehow, I had dragged the iolinc relay for the GDO into the scene for the keypad keys and the damper control iolinc. So the suggestion is to look at scenes that control lighting or anything else that runs after sunup and controls a scene that accidentally got the iolinc relay added Paul
oberkc Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 No programs running at the time of the opening garage door? Hmmm. I would certainly look at scenes per paulbates suggestion. Click on the IOLinc relay from the admin panel and see if is unexpectedly part of a scene. I suppose you could remove the IOLinc from the ISY and perform a factory reset. Before adding it back, observe if the door stops opening by itself. If door continues self-opening, it sounds as if you have external factors in play. If door ceases the uncommanded opening, add it back to the ISY (not adding it to any scenes or programs) and see if the door start the uncommanded actions. If so, this points to some interaction between the two. If not, add it back to your scenes. Continue this process until the problem appears again or, better yet, this solves the problem. If it happens regularly at a predictable time, open the event viewer and watch for clues at that time. Or, if you know when it happened, check the logs for insteon commands (not just programs) at the times when the door opens. I assume, also, that you are not experiencing everything turning on...just the GDO. Correct? I was wondering aloud whether you are seeing the results of one of those ALL-ON issues.
beninsteon Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 Could this be an all-on event? Are any other devices turning on randomly at the same time? It is older insteon devices that suffer this problem so newer switchlincs would not be affected. Overall I think it's a bad idea to be using an iolinc for any security/safety related purposes because of problems like these. I've switched to global cache relays which are easily controllable with network resources.
lilyoyo1 Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, beninsteon said: Could this be an all-on event? Are any other devices turning on randomly at the same time? It is older insteon devices that suffer this problem so newer switchlincs would not be affected. Overall I think it's a bad idea to be using an iolinc for any security/safety related purposes because of problems like these. I've switched to global cache relays which are easily controllable with network resources. I doubt it as is happening at approximately the same exact time and it's the only device turning on. The all on turned everything on. I'm with Beninsteon in regards to using the iolinc. At one time the iolinc was the only option. Now, with zwave and MyQ being available, I would recommend using something else. Edited September 7, 2019 by lilyoyo1
larryllix Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, beninsteon said: Could this be an all-on event? Are any other devices turning on randomly at the same time? It is older insteon devices that suffer this problem so newer switchlincs would not be affected. Overall I think it's a bad idea to be using an iolinc for any security/safety related purposes because of problems like these. I've switched to global cache relays which are easily controllable with network resources. I still don't believe in the ALL ON phenomenon as thought of by others. However, I did have similar random events for about a year which I finally identified as a scene I had setup myself, by the particular level pattern of the many lights affected. Mine ended up roughly related to a plug-in OnOff module that appeared to be sending that scene code instead of an ACK sequence. Simply power cycling the module fixed it and I haven't seen it again for several years now. AFAIC the ALL ON signal is just another scene being manufactured from noise. These Chamberlain GDO are bad news for Insteon. The last one I installed (with MyQ) crippled my Insteon system at about 40-50% operational. A pair of FilterLincs solved that problem and my system worked better than it did from day 1 with an AC motor Chamberlain GDO causing some minor Insteon problems. I always blamed my OutBack inverters for those problems but it was minor and I never sleuthed it down. A GDO, with MyQ problem makes me suspect the GDO causing havoc with the IOLinc thinking it is seeing a scene command, it is involved in. @James Peterson is the IOLinc in an Insteon scene? Scenes do not create log lines in ISY. No status update is sent. There is no arbitrator in Insteon for the multiple devices that would clash status updates simultaneously. Edited September 7, 2019 by larryllix
beninsteon Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 9 hours ago, larryllix said: I still don't believe in the ALL ON phenomenon as thought of by others. All On is real. Happened to me once. IOlinc Garage door opened, IOLinc controlled fireplaces controlled turned on, IOLinc controlled water valve shut off and older SwitchLincs turned on. It was caused by a bad HomeSeer event that was overloading the ISY (approx 10 program calls/sec), and the ISY program that was being triggered was controlling a scene. After this experience, IOLincs have been relegated to sensors only.
larryllix Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, beninsteon said: All On is real. Happened to me once. IOlinc Garage door opened, IOLinc controlled fireplaces controlled turned on, IOLinc controlled water valve shut off and older SwitchLincs turned on. It was caused by a bad HomeSeer event that was overloading the ISY (approx 10 program calls/sec), and the ISY program that was being triggered was controlling a scene. After this experience, IOLincs have been relegated to sensors only. If I am understanding these devices they would not all be in scenes, or in particular, one common scene, and no other devices in your home turned on? Edited September 7, 2019 by larryllix
beninsteon Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, larryllix said: If I am understanding these devices they would not all be in scenes Correct, the scene that was getting triggered multiple times per second over several hours did not involve the devices that were ultimately turned on. Hence, I believe All On is real. The theories I've seen and seem to make sense is an overload of powerline traffic results in packets colliding and being misread as "All On". It's nice that smarthome removed the All On trigger from newer devices. I can't figure out why they aren't updating the IOLinc. 1
larryllix Posted September 7, 2019 Posted September 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, beninsteon said: Correct, the scene that was getting triggered multiple times per second over several hours did not involve the devices that were ultimately turned on. Hence, I believe All On is real. The theories I've seen and seem to make sense is an overload of powerline traffic results in packets colliding and being misread as "All On". It's nice that smarthome removed the All On trigger from newer devices. I can't figure out why they aren't updating the IOLinc. Without studying the binary Insteon codes myself, it would still seem that the All On command is just another Insteon predefined scene formerly built into all Insteon devices (remnant of the X10 protocol it was created from) . Also, scenes, especially the All On, must be very easy to create by noise and data collisions, and using no data security or else an Insteon device misinterprets it and "cleans it up', repeating a clean signal to everybody. 1
James Peterson Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 It doesn't appear to be in any scenes. I opened at 3am (ISY Query all time) today with is out of character, but still an issue. Here is the log not really that much happening. I decided to pull the wires from the IOLinc until I solve this. At least this way the door won't open. I also added a program that will txt me when the IOLinc button gets triggered. DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 71.0° Mon 2019/09/09 03:06:03 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 72.0° Mon 2019/09/09 03:04:56 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 71.0° Mon 2019/09/09 03:03:50 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Humidity 48% Mon 2019/09/09 03:02:43 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 72.0° Mon 2019/09/09 03:01:35 System Log Doors / Garage Door Lock Battery level 99% Mon 2019/09/09 03:01:19 System Log Doors / Front Door Lock Battery level 64% Mon 2019/09/09 03:01:07 System Log Doors / Deck Door Lock Battery level 98% Mon 2019/09/09 03:00:54 System Log Doors / LargeGarage-Button Status On Mon 2019/09/09 03:00:19 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 71.0° Mon 2019/09/09 03:00:00 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 72.0° Mon 2019/09/09 02:59:03 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 71.0° Mon 2019/09/09 02:57:56 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 72.0° Mon 2019/09/09 02:55:46 System Log DiningRoom / hvac - Main Status 71.0° Mon 2019/09/09 02:54:40 System Log
larryllix Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 5 hours ago, James Peterson said: It doesn't appear to be in any scenes. I opened at 3am (ISY Query all time) today with is out of character, but still an issue. Here is the log not really that much happening. I decided to pull the wires from the IOLinc until I solve this. At least this way the door won't open. I also added a program that will txt me when the IOLinc button gets triggered. Don't forget the phantom All On ghost, and other scenes do not send any status updates, so ISY will not record them. PITA. I had what appeared t be an ALL ON last night at midnight. Then I noticed all my NRbridge RPi software bulbs went full on also. Wit a mix of Insteon and WiFi bulbs it had to come out of ISY. Looks like NR events are not recorded either. I do have routines based on single variables that could have done it but it appears my ISY screwed up somehow writing the wrong value to the variable.
James Peterson Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 What the shit? I unplugged the IOlinc switch line so it could not open the garage? I just got home and it is open? So this has to be a none ISY thing right? a short? another remote? Off = Open On = Closed Doors / LargeGarage-Status Status Off Mon 2019/09/09 16:18:49 System Log
mwester Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) See my earlier post, particularly about the long wires and noise pickup... Edited: By "unplug" do you mean the 3.5mm plug that looks like a headphone jack on the IOLinc - if so, isn't that the sensor in, not the relay out that would switch the GDO? Edited September 9, 2019 by mwester 1
James Peterson Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, mwester said: See my earlier post, particularly about the long wires and noise pickup... There is nothing like that. I do have a newly installed RV 30amp line that runs near the garage wires, but it does not have anything attached that would turn on or off at these times. its getting more random.
James Peterson Posted September 9, 2019 Author Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, James Peterson said: There is nothing like that. I do have a newly installed RV 30amp line that runs near the garage wires, but it does not have anything attached that would turn on or off at these times. its getting more random. Besides, this is one of the MyQ GDs and you can't just connect 2 wires and close a circuit to trigger the opener any longer. Getting depparate. Pulled the batteries on all my spare remotes. Edited September 9, 2019 by James Peterson
mwester Posted September 9, 2019 Posted September 9, 2019 Hmm... a defective logic board perhaps? If you're concerned about a rogue remote, does the unit have a "lock mode" or "vacation mode" that you can enable to effectively disable the remotes?
Jimbo.Automates Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 I had that happen with an older GDO, Genie support was convinced I had a forgotten remote in a drawer somewhere, but that older model had a separate receiver board which I pulled out to prove to them it was a main board issue. They sent me a new board. Drove me crazy for a long time.Sent from my Pixel 3 XL with Tapatalk
James Peterson Posted September 11, 2019 Author Posted September 11, 2019 I think I got this fixed. Each of our GDO should have 3 remotes a wall button and a connection to MyQ online service. Somehow the main garage door reported 5 remotes and 3 connections to MyQ. I factory reset the GDO and relinked the 3 remotes that were supposed to be attached and I have not had the problem since. I have not re-setup MyQ. So...... since I didn't do it one at a time... My GDO had 2 extra remotes attached to it and an extra connection to MyQ. Any ideas how this can happen?
Recommended Posts