Is there a more efficient approach to using a motion sensor with outdoor lights?

[SteveKlos]

I'll try to give a short summary, but I'm wondering how to efficiently utilize a motion sensor with outdoor lights, when the lights can be in a variety of states...

We use our backyard for various activities - there are 4 primary scenes that we'll turn on and off when we're doing something.  The four scenes can be:

1) landscape lights on
2) Party scene on
3) Clean up time
4) Dog's gotta go out

We also have a motion sensor setup.  When the motion sensor is activated, it sends a restful command to the video surveillance system that takes a picture and sends it via text to my phone.

All of the above works great.

Now, I want to add in a program where the motion sensor will turn the lights in the backyard on (to a specified level) if there is motion *and* if it's dark and the lights aren't currently on.

It seems overly complex to do this...  What I have done is the following:

I have a variable that indicates if it's after sunset and if the landscape lights in the front are on, or if it's after hours and they're off.  Basically, Dark will be 1 or 2 if it's after sunset.

I have another variable that's set to true if any of the lights in the back are set to a level > 10%

I've had to set the "off" trigger for the motion sensor to 6 minutes so that it does turn off again, so the ISY will again set the event management for the motion sensor to be active.

Finally, because a program will not continue to execute when a state variable (or the trigger itself) has changed, I've had to include a timer variable that enables the program to stay active while the timer is in the wait state.

My program looks as shown in the image below.

This seems overly complex.  But it also seems as if I use the else command, that another extraneous event could trigger the program to turn the backyard lights scene off.  Is there a more efficient method folks use when you have numerous scenes that can be turned on and off manually, but you also want to be able to have something automatically done if the manual scenes aren't active?

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

 

[lilyoyo1]

I do my setup differently. My motion program is separate from everything I do. Whether it's floodlights or patio, my lights turn on/off based on motion. My motion off programs are also separately programmed. This allows me more leeway with programming

With that said, anything I initiate in order to be outside simply disables my motion program. Unlock the back door, the light turns on and my motion program automatically disables. It gets re-enabled when I either manually turn off the light, lock the door back, or auto times out. The same goes for any of my outdoor scenes.

By doing it this way, I don't have to track light states and such

[SteveKlos]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I do my setup differently. My motion program is separate from everything I do. Whether it's floodlights or patio, my lights turn on/off based on motion. My motion off programs are also separately programmed. This allows me more leeway with programming

With that said, anything I initiate in order to be outside simply disables my motion program. Unlock the back door, the light turns on and my motion program automatically disables. It gets re-enabled when I either manually turn off the light, lock the door back, or auto times out. The same goes for any of my outdoor scenes.

By doing it this way, I don't have to track light states and such

I like this idea.  Never thought about disabling the automated systems when doing something manually.

One issue I see...  Most of the manual activities I do are based on scenes.  I've not yet figured out how to get the isy to react to scenes - can it be a responder and in that response kick off a program?

 

Cheers,

SK

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, SteveKlos said:

I like this idea.  Never thought about disabling the automated systems when doing something manually.

One issue I see...  Most of the manual activities I do are based on scenes.  I've not yet figured out how to get the isy to react to scenes - can it be a responder and in that response kick off a program?

 

Cheers,

SK

I'd say 95% (if not more)of my setup is scene based ( @larryllixfavorite setup. Lol). All you're doing is creating a program that activates based off your system. You can do this based on control (manual) or status. I prefer status but that choice is on you.

I use status just in case I go out during the day. Since my lights are activated based on programs, hitting a button or unlocking the door while it's daylight doesn't turn on lights. Once the sun goes down, everything turns on accordingly. The same applies with the motion sensors.

In my case, I have a program for my back yard that says something like:

If status back door is unlocked or Patio relax or patio party is not off

Then disable motion program

As I stated previously, my offs are always kept separate so I also enable the program should the buttons be off and door is locked. 

 

 

 

[oberkc]

Quote

I've not yet figured out how to get the isy to react to scenes - can it be a responder and in that response kick off a program?

There is no way to use a scene status to trigger anything.  The theory is that there is no such thing (or at least a consensus on what constitutes) scene status, on or off.  For this, I pick a few key members of a scene and use those as indicators that a scene is on.

 

4 hours ago, SteveKlos said:

Finally, because a program will not continue to execute when a state variable (or the trigger itself) has changed,

 To be clear, this is true only if there are wait states or repeats in the program.  Otherwise, the program continues to completion.

i tend to do things much like lilyoy1...if I have an event that I want to supersede the motion sensor, then I disable the motion program.  This likely requires all motion events to be program-driven rather than scene-driven...it is not easy to tell a scene responder to stop being so.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'd say 95% (if not more)of my setup is scene based ( @larryllixfavorite setup. Lol). All you're doing is creating a program that activates based off your system. You can do this based on control (manual) or status. I prefer status but that choice is on you.

I use status just in case I go out during the day. Since my lights are activated based on programs, hitting a button or unlocking the door while it's daylight doesn't turn on lights. Once the sun goes down, everything turns on accordingly. The same applies with the motion sensors.

In my case, I have a program for my back yard that says something like:

If status back door is unlocked or Patio relax or patio party is not off

Then disable motion program

As I stated previously, my offs are always kept separate so I also enable the program should the buttons be off and door is locked. 

 

 

 

Oh ya' big tease!

When I used X10 back in the 1980s, the MSes would send both On and Off and the Off was not blockable.  I used both techniques then. The MS on would directly turn on the light (for speed), trigger a program, and then both the  program, and the MS off signal,  would turn the light off, similar to what can be done with Insteon MSes today.
The X10 MSes could be set for 1,2,4,8,16,32 etc... minutes of resettable On time and would act as a backup Off signal to the program, to turn lights off.

I see this technique as a good combination of us 'control freaks' vs. you 'Hub bubs' , that could be used for the best of both worlds using Insteon technology and ISY superior. 

Having said that I only use ISY programmed Offs to control my lights and all MS Off signals are disabled. If my ISY/PLM failed, I would be missing the Off cycles. It may be really annoying but with LED technology now, nobody advertises HA for saving energy on lights anymore. hmmmm….. I wonder if amazon sells sleeping masks???