Blackbird Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 What is a good (cheap) temperature sensor for the freezer that works with ELK or Insteon, wireless or wired? thanks
larryllix Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Blackbird said: What is a good (cheap) temperature sensor for the freezer that works with ELK or Insteon, wireless or wired? thanks CAO Wireless Tags. About $30 each plus a single Tag manager $25?. Everybody loves them. You will need a new CR2032 battery every 9-15 motnhs depending on how frequently you have them update. Ther are many threads about them here in the past. I have published kumoApps to stuff their parameters into ISY, there is a fine PolyGlot NS, and they support many other methods of getting their parameters to almost every place you could want it. Alexa now has a skil you can query the temperature form them vocally. Humidity, Lux, and XYZ positions are not supported by Alexa skill yet. I have one screwed to my garage door that tells if the door is open or closed. I have one in my glove box that tells if the car is home or not I have one in my fridge that tells if the door is opened too long. Saved our bacon a few times now. I have two outside that tell me air temperature and the sunny wall temperature in order to create intelligent thermostat predictive setback and recovery. These also have lux. I have one in my wine cellar that controls an exhaust fan based on inside to outside dewpoint comparison. Temperatures come at you down to 0.001 C resolution, very stable and accurate. Some stats wander around seasonally plus or minus 1-3 degrees C. Based on averages using 6 Tags and a few other digital thermometers, these don't wander much. Dimensions are about 1.25" square by 1/4" thick. I have received signals from the one in my car over 1.5km away. 1
Blackbird Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 I had thought about those but I heard there is a lot of problems with range and disconnects. Im surprised about the range you are getting. Thanks
Bumbershoot Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 11 hours ago, larryllix said: I have one in my fridge that tells if the door is opened too long. Saved our bacon a few times now. 7 minutes ago, Blackbird said: I had thought about those but I heard there is a lot of problems with range and disconnects I have these in two freezers, one in the garage approx. 70' from the tag manager, and they work very well. I have others in the garden, maybe 150' from the tag manager. I have the tag manager stuck in a cabinet, so the range is likely impaired somewhat by it's location. I use the Wireless Tag nodeserver to put the data into my ISY, which vastly increases the usefulness of these little devices. I have about a dozen of them in my HA environment, using them to help manage irrigation, humidity levels, temperature, occupancy, even to know if anyone has been rooting around in my humidor.
larryllix Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Blackbird said: I had thought about those but I heard there is a lot of problems with range and disconnects. Im surprised about the range you are getting. Thanks I have heard of setup difficulties but not range problems. Some may need to be tuned for longer range or battery saving adjustments. They have a self-adjusting frequency routine but the user has to trigger it. Motion detection and other parameters have to be set to self trigger reporting, or else the tags will only send updates on the preset periods, like 1,2,5,10,15,30,60,120, 240 minutes. They have flashing lights and beepers that can run the batteries down if turned on. I tried the NS but found it just added further delays to reporting and add more complexity into the data path security.. I also tried the vocal options in the app but it freaks people out when my phone babbles in my pocket. Here is the temperature, Dewpoint and Lux readings inside my fridge for the last week. Use the swipe select to zoom in and out andyou should see every time we opened the fridge door. I use an immediate notification on our mobile phones (no ISY required) and ISY for longer term slower monitoring. https://www.mytaglist.com/eth/tempStats.html?d3f5c09f-3c55-437a-8ff2-b011cd3fc291&Fridge&C&1 Edited October 10, 2019 by larryllix
Blackbird Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) That's awesome. I currently have an insteon door sensor in my mailbox and would be nice to replace it with this tag and one for the freezer. I was thinking about the 13 bit tem humidity tag. Which models do you guys use? Thanks Edited October 10, 2019 by Blackbird
Bumbershoot Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Blackbird said: Which models do you guys use? I'm using the 13 bit temp/humidity tags (5), along with the PIR KumoSensors (4) and Water/Moisture sensors (4). All work just fine with the ISY, either with Network Resources or through the nodeserver. BTW, if you're going to buy some of these things, then use this link: https://goo.gl/rXAGk9 @Jimbo, who maintains the Polyglot Wireless Tag nodeserver gets a discount on his purchases when this link is used. Whether you use the nodeserver or not, this is a way show him some support. 2
larryllix Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blackbird said: That's awesome. I currently have an insteon door sensor in my mailbox and would be nice to replace it with this tag and one for the freezer. I was thinking about the 13 bit tem humidity tag. Which models do you guys use? Thanks I have a few of almost all the models over time. The last ones I bought had lux, which I wanted, but it seems they have eliminated the XYZ positioning. It seems like it detects movement by changes in light, wakes up and does some other measurements. I have never used the XYZ positioning on my other tags despite having them in my ISY variables, and they seem based on the earth's magnetic poles so ???? OTOH, I am using one for my garage door but in the Door Opening mode where it does some kind of self calibration thing when closed. The cool thing about them is the multi-sensor aspect. You can stick one on your mailbox lid and read outside temperature and humidity off the same install. These things must already be 13 bits as you will receive 0.001 C temperature resolution. Maybe I didn't buy the cheaper ones in the beginning? All but the cheapest units have memory and if disconnected will update the parameters back months before the reconnection. Edited October 10, 2019 by larryllix
MWareman Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 That's awesome. I currently have an insteon door sensor in my mailbox and would be nice to replace it with this tag and one for the freezer. I was thinking about the 13 bit tem humidity tag. Which models do you guys use? Thanks Let us know if you get it to work in your mailbox...I cannot get a signal from mine in our mailbox - after all it’s a low power radio and placed in what amounts to a faraday cage...I still have a project ahead of me to figure a more reliable solution for this one...
larryllix Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, MWareman said: Let us know if you get it to work in your mailbox... I cannot get a signal from mine in our mailbox - after all it’s a low power radio and placed in what amounts to a faraday cage... I still have a project ahead of me to figure a more reliable solution for this one... Have you done the frequency calibration of your tag? Many people report these working fine inside freezers and fridges. I didn't think it should work either and I don't see how the signal gets through a thin and compressed magnetic gasket slot, but it does somehow. Edited October 14, 2019 by larryllix
Blackbird Posted October 14, 2019 Author Posted October 14, 2019 I have it ordered and will let you know. Now im worried
larryllix Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Blackbird said: I have it ordered and will let you know. Now im worried I had trouble with getting a position from the earth's magnetic poles when screwed to a flat metal garage door. 45 degree twist in position fixed it, and it never fails now. I have it sticking above the top of the garage door so there is no metal against the back of the Tag. At the opposite end of my house, in the garage, I have a freezer and the Tag works fine inside the freezer. OTOH, @asbril (I think) @smokegrubhad a lot of problems getting his to work inside his mailbox at the end of his lane. IIRC eventually he got it working. I am not sure what the solution was. Edited October 15, 2019 by larryllix
smokegrub Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) i have used a tag on the outside of the door of my mailbox. I have applied a light seam of silicone to the tag and it has lasted for more than two years. I know the tags are not waterproof but I was willing to sacrifice the tag if it lasted a reasonable time and kept me from unnecessary trips to the box. I would guesstimate that it works more than 80% of the time and seems to be dependent on how lond the carrier keeps the box open. Not a perfect solution but more than acceptable, to me. I just installed two more tags today as a backup to hidden door sensors at a remote address which I will not visit for the next 6 months. I keep the motion sensors on the tags turned off until, and if, the hidden door sensors' batteries fail or they fail for some other reason. I am very well pleased with the tags. Edited October 15, 2019 by smokegrub 1
asbril Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, larryllix said: OTOH, @asbril (I think) Not me............ I live in a condo 1
larryllix Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, asbril said: Not me............ I live in a condo Sorry. SmokeGrub was the other I was thinking. We have our answer above. Edited October 15, 2019 by larryllix
larryllix Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, smokegrub said: i have used a tag on the outside of the door of my mailbox. I have applied a light seam of silicone to the tag and it has lasted for more than two years. I know the tags are not waterproof but I was willing to sacrifice the tag if it lasted a reasonable time and kept me from unnecessary trips to the box. I would guesstimate that it works more than 80% of the time and seems to be dependent on how lond the carrier keeps the box open. Not a perfect solution but more than acceptable, to me. I just installed two more tags today as a backup to hidden door sensors at a remote address which I will not visit for the next 6 months. I keep the motion sensors on the tags turned off until, and if, the hidden door sensors' batteries fail or they fail for some other reason. I am very well pleased with the tags. Thanks SG! Have you read my post above? Can you try the calibration I showed the screen shot for above? It is found on the Tag webpage for your tags. I would be really interested to see if this improves your reception. I know you had a lot of problems when you first tried one in your mailbox and don't know how you resolved it, even to 80%. I have never had to calibrate my frequency offsets for my tags, but apparently it can become critical if a narrow bandwidth is selected as the frequency may wander around a bit, based on temperature. IIRC the narrower the frequency the further range you will get but the freq. can become flakey and need seasonal calibration. Long time! Here is a screenshot for setting the bandwidth first for a longer range. Edited October 15, 2019 by larryllix
MWareman Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 Have you done the frequency calibration of your tag? Many people report these working fine inside freezers and fridges. I didn't think it should work either and I don't see how the signal gets through a thin and compressed magnetic gasket slot, but it does somehow. Yes, I have.I have 4 in cold boxes (two freezers, a fridge and a fridge drawer) all working without issue. Just cannot get a signal from within my mailbox...
larryllix Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, MWareman said: Yes, I have. I have 4 in cold boxes (two freezers, a fridge and a fridge drawer) all working without issue. Just cannot get a signal from within my mailbox... Metal cans can be a problem for RF in so many ways. The shape could be a bad ratio of length to width even, causing standing waves to go nuts. Even just the length could tune or detune the wavelength. Try padding one end with steel wool. LOL 1
larryllix Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, MWareman said: Yes, I have. I have 4 in cold boxes (two freezers, a fridge and a fridge drawer) all working without issue. Just cannot get a signal from within my mailbox... Finally found a frequency range for these Tags on the FCC website.431.04-439.36 MHz which puts the wavelength at about 27" +/- 0.5" Sound like a metal mailbox length for standing wave problems? I have a plastic mailbox but I am guessing this may be a clue. EDIT: Most of the rural style mailboxes I have found on homedepot.ca are 20-22 inches in length. Shouldn't be a factor. Edited October 15, 2019 by larryllix 1
MWareman Posted October 15, 2019 Posted October 15, 2019 Finally found a frequency range for these Tags on the FCC website.431.04-439.36 MHz which puts the wavelength at about 27" +/- 0.5" Sound like a metal mailbox length for standing wave problems? I have a plastic mailbox but I am guessing this may be a clue. EDIT: Most of the rural style mailboxes I have found on homedepot.ca are 20-22 inches in length. Shouldn't be a factor. I’m going to have to measure mine now. My neighbors are going to wonder what’s going on!I think it’s more of an attenuation issue (since it’s likely grounded) that a standing wave issue overloading the device. Switching the mailbox out to a plastic one is probably the best action - but I’m still hopeful that I can mount a tag of some kind outside the mailbox and have a regular door sensor to detect mailbox opening. CAO don’t make such a tag that I know of though.
Blackbird Posted October 16, 2019 Author Posted October 16, 2019 I'm currently using the insteon door sensor in my metal mailbox and it works great
larryllix Posted October 16, 2019 Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) I would be sure that the planar position of the Tag would be important for RF radiation patterns. Perhaps a few turns of wire around the Tag with the loose end acting as an antenna extension? Steel or aluminum construction may make a difference also. They would both "Faraday cage" the electro part, but steel would also "Faraday cage" the magnetic potion of the electromagnetic radiation. Neighbours will think Christmas packages are coming and you want to make sure the parcel will fit. My latest Tag purchase of Tags with Lux detect motion by changes in lighting.....weird but it works. Maybe a plastic back panel on the mailbox with a Lux unit facing forward? As long as your mail comes in the daylight. Edited October 16, 2019 by larryllix
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