smarthome_newbie Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I'm back again. First, thank you all for the support you've already given me with this issue. Below is a video of the problem. The video was recorded after both switches were factory reset. I contacted Insteon and was first told both switches needed to be factory reset. I have already done that, but did it again; the problem persisted. I was then told it was a wiring issue. I checked the wiring, sent them a picture and still have the problem. I then received the response below. How can this be related to the LED bulbs? The on/off switch is causing the keypad to turn off and then back on. The lights aren't "flashing." They are turning off and then on. Any thoughts? https://vimeo.com/366609986 I just got an update from my concern team stating that the reason why the load was flickering is because LEDs are putting noise on the line when they are in use, when another device is activated, the lights start to flicker.You can add more resistance to the flickering loads by either using incandescent bulbs or something like this: http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx/products/tools/lds). Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 38 minutes ago, smarthome_newbie said: I'm back again. First, thank you all for the support you've already given me with this issue. Below is a video of the problem. The video was recorded after both switches were factory reset. I contacted Insteon and was first told both switches needed to be factory reset. I have already done that, but did it again; the problem persisted. I was then told it was a wiring issue. I checked the wiring, sent them a picture and still have the problem. I then received the response below. How can this be related to the LED bulbs? The on/off switch is causing the keypad to turn off and then back on. The lights aren't "flashing." They are turning off and then on. Any thoughts? https://vimeo.com/366609986 I just got an update from my concern team stating that the reason why the load was flickering is because LEDs are putting noise on the line when they are in use, when another device is activated, the lights start to flicker.You can add more resistance to the flickering loads by either using incandescent bulbs or something like this: http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx/products/tools/lds). Late to the party but have your tried to install the KPL in another box, further away, or on a different circuit? Do you have other KPLs or SwitchLincs that cause it, or not cause it? Have you tried to eliminate the LED bulb noise by using incandescent bulbs? Link to comment
smarthome_newbie Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 I have not installed it in another box. Other KPLs don’t cause the light to turn off then back on like in the video. But I have two more KPLs. One is connected to a load and the other isn’t. Both KPLs connected to a load, including the one in the video, flash briefly when I turn on/off another switch in the house. It can be a totally unrelated switch with no scene. Have not tried other bulbs because the bulbs work fine with all other switches in the house and I didn’t think it could be bulb related if after a factory reset the on off switch still does this to the keypad switch. Is that possible?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, smarthome_newbie said: I have not installed it in another box. Other KPLs don’t cause the light to turn off then back on like in the video. But I have two more KPLs. One is connected to a load and the other isn’t. Both KPLs connected to a load, including the one in the video, flash briefly when I turn on/off another switch in the house. It can be a totally unrelated switch with no scene. Have not tried other bulbs because the bulbs work fine with all other switches in the house and I didn’t think it could be bulb related if after a factory reset the on off switch still does this to the keypad switch. Is that possible? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think that logic is lacking there. Almost any load can cause bad power on the lines. Motors produce high voltage spikes when turned off. Motor laminations can cause waveform bending such that harmonics go crazy. I scoped a ten times inrush current lasting over half a cycle off an incandescent bulbs once. LED bulbs have been notorious for driving some dimmers crazy. Bulb heat can ruin the power supply capacitors and can make harmonics. Power supplies use inverters that chop up the waveform into high frequency pulses, and can feed back into lines. I had an OnOff plug-in module end out scene On codes instead of acknowledging it's command from ISY. Anything can happen. You have to eliminate things until you get a clue to zoom in closer. If you can find the source, you should be able to isolate it and stop it from bothering your system. Link to comment
smarthome_newbie Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 17 minutes ago, larryllix said: I think that logic is lacking there. Almost any load can cause bad power on the lines. Motors produce high voltage spikes when turned off. Motor laminations can cause waveform bending such that harmonics go crazy. I scoped a ten times inrush current lasting over half a cycle off an incandescent bulbs once. LED bulbs have been notorious for driving some dimmers crazy. Bulb heat can ruin the power supply capacitors and can make harmonics. Power supplies use inverters that chop up the waveform into high frequency pulses, and can feed back into lines. I had an OnOff plug-in module end out scene On codes instead of acknowledging it's command from ISY. Anything can happen. You have to eliminate things until you get a clue to zoom in closer. If you can find the source, you should be able to isolate it and stop it from bothering your system. Thanks. You’re talking a little above my head so I have some follow up questions. I’m using the same lights throughout the house and this is the only keypad with that issue. The on off switch’s load is a fan. This same fan is installed somewhere else in the house on a keypad next to an on off switch and I don’t have the issue. Could I have the issue with a similar set up in one room but not the other? Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, smarthome_newbie said: Thanks. You’re talking a little above my head so I have some follow up questions. I’m using the same lights throughout the house and this is the only keypad with that issue. The on off switch’s load is a fan. This same fan is installed somewhere else in the house on a keypad next to an on off switch and I don’t have the issue. Could I have the issue with a similar set up in one room but not the other? Sure. They could be on the same circuit breaker. The KPL is mounted right beside the Switch causing the problem, in the video. Magnetic fields could be influencing things. You aren't going to solve this until you start trying things. Suspect everything and start replacing everything. When it stops being a problem start replacing one thing at a time. You may have a bad wiring connection that is driving the KPL nuts with certain loads. Start by removing the LED bulbs and putting known tamer loads... incandescent bulbs. Link to comment
smarthome_newbie Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, larryllix said: Sure. They could be on the same circuit breaker. The KPL is mounted right beside the Switch causing the problem, in the video. You aren't going to solve this until you start trying things. Suspect everything and start replacing everything. When it stops being a problem start replacing one thing at a time. You may have a bad wiring connection that is driving the KPL nuts with certain loads. Start by removing the LED bulbs and putting known tamer loads... incandescent bulbs. Got it. I will start as you suggested, but can you elaborate on "bad wiring connection?" Thanks! Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, smarthome_newbie said: Got it. I will start as you suggested, but can you elaborate on "bad wiring connection?" Thanks! Not really but.... from the looks of it the KPL is wired through a load instead of directly to the neutral wire. Link to comment
smarthome_newbie Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, larryllix said: Not really but.... from the looks of it the KPL is wired through a load instead of directly to the neutral wire. Here are some pics of the wiring. https://i.imgur.com/1aw9FTa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VA0hfF1.jpg Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, smarthome_newbie said: Here are some pics of the wiring. https://i.imgur.com/1aw9FTa.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VA0hfF1.jpg The two white neutrals disappear behind other wiring and I cannot see where they are going. They don't appear to be included into the multiple white, wire cap, where they should be connected to, somehow. You could also so try removing all the bulbs the SwitchLinc controls and see if it happens. Link to comment
smarthome_newbie Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks. You’ve been helpful. I’m going to try your suggestions and report back. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
brians Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Disconnect load from switchlinc and see if still affects keypadlinc. Start isolating. Can try swapping switches and see if does same thing. Jumper load and line together on keypadlinc side and disconnect from it and see if it still shuts off. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.