Replaced PLM, now some programs aren't working?

[oh2bnMaine]

Good day.

I had a PLM issue that I finally fixed. I spent the better part of yesterday getting all my lights to register on the new PLM/ISY combination. I had to move the PLM around a bit, but I think that's all behind me. The only issue I see now is that certain programs are not running. I even tried to recreate the programs to see if that would fix it. At this point, I could use some suggestions.

I have programs for each bathroom. They each have a program that will turn the fan off 25 minutes after the bathroom light switch is turned off. They also have a program that will turn the fan and other lights on if the main light's switch is turned on while the main light is already on. I call this program the double-on program. I have used it for 12 years with no issues.

These programs used to work just fine. Now I'm seeing issues.

For the half bath, the 25-minute fan timer works just fine. The double-on program has yet to be triggered.
For the master bath, the 25-minute fan timer and the double-on program have yet to work.
For the guest bath, neither program seems to be running either, but both programs worked yesterday evening.

So, clearly there are inconsistencies, which make debugging this more difficult.

I can get the ISY to successfully query the guest bathroom fan and turn the fan on/off, but I was having difficulty getting the ISY to turn on the guest bathroom light. The same seems to be true for the half bathroom, yes the 25-minute timer program is working for this bathroom. Again, inconsistencies. ?

Does anyone have any suggestion? 

[Michel Kohanim]

@oh2bnMaine,

Are you certain you followed the instructions after replacing the PLM? It seems that you are not getting status feedback from your devices:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON_No_Status_Feedback_From_Devices

 

With kind regards,
Michel

[oh2bnMaine]

I want to say yes, but I've been wrong with the PLM before.

Yesterday, after switching out the PLM, the half bath fan double-on program worked fine. So did the program in the guest bath. 

Is it possible for these issues to be intermittent? 

 

[oh2bnMaine]

Hi Michel.

I count 38 independent devices. If I expand the groups (the 6-button keypad would have 5 separate entries), I count 50 entries.

My PLM count is 40 after doing a Restore PLM. The number changed... before doing this Restore PLM, I had a count of 53 links.

Should I be doing a factory reset on the PLM and starting over? Can I use any of the backups I have performed since installing this PLM or do I need to go back to a prior backup from months ago?

If Link count is 0:

• Go to file | Restore Modem (PLM) ... this will attempt to recreate all the links in the PLM
• Once Restore Modem (PLM) is completed, count the number of links in the PLM again using the procedure outlined above
• If the link count is still 0, then in all likelihood the PLM is dead and has to be replaced

[oh2bnMaine]

My link count is now only 30. 

I did a factory reset on my PLM (unplug for 30 seconds, hold SET button while plugging in and holding for 10 seconds). Then did a Restore PLM using the link you provided.

No matter how I count the following list, I can't seem to get to 30 (the links table had 28 items). 

I know I'm venting, but I can't be the only person who has difficulty with this process. I've been using your product at least since 2007. I've only had to do the Restore PLM process a handful of times and never has it gone smoothly. I am so frustrated at this point.  

[paulbates]

One thing I've run in to is that the failing PLM "polluted" the Insteon system of record information in the ISY.

If you have an ISY backup of prior to the PLM starting to fail; restore that backup... then perform the restore modem

Paul

[oh2bnMaine]

I did that before I started all this. Do you think I need to do it again?? By having all this screwed up so badly did I pollute the current ISY configuration even though it is from a prior instance before this new PLM?

[oh2bnMaine]

More information for debugging.

I have a switch in the house that controls my ceiling fan. There's a program that forces the switch to the ON position whenever it is found that it is OFF. Yesterday, the ISY response time to flip the switch back to ON from OFF was very fast (less than 1 second). Now, it takes a few seconds for this reaction.

On that switch, I have a double-on program written to turn the deck lights on or off depending on the state of the deck lights. This program also performs very poorly. It takes a few seconds before the deck lights react to the double-on. 

In both cases, the ISY announces that it cannot communicate with the Ceiling Fan switch or the Deck Lights switch... even though it managed to successfully perform the action.;

[paulbates]

8 minutes ago, oh2bnMaine said:

I did that before I started all this. Do you think I need to do it again?? By having all this screwed up so badly did I pollute the current ISY configuration even though it is from a prior instance before this new PLM?

It depends if the backup is before the PLM started failing, possibly before you noticed. However, there is secondary set of steps if you are down to a few devices. Right click on the device and pick restore device. That should force the new PLM information into the device and delete the old PLM's link. The old PLM's link data being in these devices is one explanation for the several second delay

 

[oh2bnMaine]

Ok, I'll run through all devices as there could be other issues. I've only just found these as clear examples to share. 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[paulbates]

1 minute ago, oh2bnMaine said:

Ok, I'll run through all devices as there could be other issues. I've only just found these as clear examples to share. 

Thanks for the suggestions.

Believe me I know how frustrating this is. Literally years of perfect operation, and then something goes sideways. One more problem is a beaconing device. If restore device on the problem devices doesn't make progress, turn on "blink on traffic" in options of one of your devices that supports blink on traffic and you can see easily. If its led is blinking constantly with no pauses, a device has failed or was confused by the replace PLM traffic... another explanation for the slow response

Good luck, you'll get it worked out

Paul

[oh2bnMaine]

Thanks. This house is relatively straightforward, so doing all devices is achievable in a reasonable amount of time. If this happens in my other house, this would be a nightmare. First world problems, I know. I have already outfitted the pool house and the living room in Florida and I have more devices in that installation. I'm setting up the Insteon network as I finish a room renovation. The house's existing wiring is knob and tube, so there's no neutral wire. 

I've dedicated each evening to getting this house fixed up. I can see I am making progress. Hopefully sitting here restoring devices while watching football works for me.

[oh2bnMaine]

Should I glean any information from the fact that some devices (after the Factory Reset PLM & Restore PLM process completed) have a ramp rate of 9 seconds? I set everything to default to 0.1 seconds. Also On Level is set to OFF in this situation.

[paulbates]

4 minutes ago, oh2bnMaine said:

Should I glean any information from the fact that some devices (after the Factory Reset PLM & Restore PLM process completed) have a ramp rate of 9 seconds? I set everything to default to 0.1 seconds. Also On Level is set to OFF in this situation.

Ugh. Not 100% sure. That would go beyond the PLM, unless the broken PLM corrupted the data in the ISY, and that was written back out in the restore PLM. I'm speculating more about that then knowing for sure.

Paul

[oh2bnMaine]

Another idiosyncrasy. I did the Restore Device step for the 3-way Primary listed in the image. The 1011 icon lit up, so I did a Write Changes to Device step as well. That did not clear the 1011 this time. Now, when I move to the Restore Device step for the first 3-way Secondary, it also tries to write to the 5-way Primary device as well. It will continue to do this until I disable the Primary just to speed things up. I don't know if this is indicative of anything. I feel like I'm driving blind.

I updated the image with a more complete list of the fails. Any device that had a 1011 icon I disabled. The red exclamation points occurred after using the Restore Device step.

I'm going to unplug the television and see if things go more smoothly. Then I may try moving where the PLM is plugged in if I can find enough extension cords!

[oh2bnMaine]

Update: Everything but the motion sensors and water leak sensors seem to be working. I'll work on those tomorrow!!

I did a Restore Device on each device individually. I had to move the PLM to different plugs twice. 

 

Thanks for the help. 

[Brian H]

If you had to move the PLM a few times. That can be an indication you have power line issues. You don't have the PLM normally on the same circuit as the computing equipment or an UPS?

Have you tested some of the communications with the built in communications tests {some manuals say Beacon Test others a 4 Tap Test}  in most Dual Band Modules?

4 Tap is what I have seen. Where you tap the Set Button 4 times and it starts beeping or the modules LED flashes. Then you look at other Dual Band modules LED. Looking  for a flash and color sequence. Some have to go through a Flow Cart of of Set Button pushes and LED flash patterns.

[oh2bnMaine]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

If you had to move the PLM a few times. That can be an indication you have power line issues. You don't have the PLM normally on the same circuit as the computing equipment or an UPS?

Have you tested some of the communications with the built in communications tests {some manuals say Beacon Test others a 4 Tap Test}  in most Dual Band Modules?

4 Tap is what I have seen. Where you tap the Set Button 4 times and it starts beeping or the modules LED flashes. Then you look at other Dual Band modules LED. Looking  for a flash and color sequence. Some have to go through a Flow Cart of of Set Button pushes and LED flash patterns.

Yeah. I'll be moving the PLM over to a rarely-used outlet that's directly attached to the breaker box. The original location was on the same outlet that I have a bunch of the house networking gear (cable modem, 16-port switch, raspberry pi, nas). It has been there for the past 12 years. There are a few light switches that have always acted up because of this location, but since they aren't used in programs or scenes I never bothered to find a different location.

[oh2bnMaine]

Ok. I'm back again for more. All my switches seem to be online, but programs are still not operating as they used to.

Program 1: Turn on deck lights when motion is detected. 
>>> This program works fine for Motion Detector 1, but does not activate for Motion Detector 2. I have MD2 sitting next to me right now and I can see it flashing green as I move around, yet the program doesn't run.

 

Program 2; I have the same two programs on all three bathrooms. The two programs are only working for one bathroom. The other two sets of programs never run when the conditions should be TRUE
>>> For the sake of simplicity, we can focus on the program that turns the bathroom fan off after X minutes. I have it set to 5 seconds for testing purposes. I have included a screenshot that includes a test to prove that the program would initiate in the half bath and still control the guest bathroom's fan (proving the ISY programs can control that fan switch). The variant for the guest bath hasn't worked since the PLM was replaced. I have recreated this program. I have copied the half bath program and made modifications. 

 

Any suggestions for me??? I'm including this in the same thread because I assume this is all related to the PLM replacement. Thanks in advance.

 

[oh2bnMaine]

I should add, I now have 90 links in the PLM link table.That's definitely at least twice the number of devices.

[kclenden]

14 minutes ago, oh2bnMaine said:

I should add, I now have 90 links in the PLM link table.That's definitely at least twice the number of devices.

Generally speaking, I would expect you to have at least two links for every devices.  One is a responder link which makes the PLM a controller and the device a responder.  This allows the ISY (via the PLM) to control a device.  The other is a controller link which makes the device a controller and the PLM a responder and ensures that the when you manually activate a device, it sends its status to the PLM.  Or at least that's how I've interpreted the purpose of those links.  Additionally, for every scene a device is in, another link will be created.

[kclenden]

1 hour ago, oh2bnMaine said:

Any suggestions for me??? I'm including this in the same thread because I assume this is all related to the PLM replacement.

I think it's safe to assume that the problems are related to the PLM replacement.  From your description, it seems like the ISY is not seeing status changes from some of your devices (Motion Sensor, Light Switches).  So for the devices that don't seem to be triggering your programs, are you seeing a change of status in the Admin Console?  While your on the "Main" tab, and with the Motion Sensor selected, do you see the Status change from "ON" to "OFF" and vice versa?  Likewise with the bathroom switches that don't seem to be activating programs.  If you're not seeing a change of status in the Admin Console then there are still links missing in your devices.

[oh2bnMaine]

I split the motion detection program into two. One for each of the motion detectors. I can confirm that one program works consistently. The other does not. I have yet to see the one linked to the motion detector that has issues change state in the ISY admin console. The other changes state consistently.

So, what do I do next? I've tried factory resetting my brand new PLM and doing a restore. I've tried restoring each device individually. 

I'm close to removing all switches and reconnecting them. Then building the scenes again and reloading my programs from backup. But this seems extreme.

[oh2bnMaine]

I went for a drastic test. I removed all scenes. Here's the ISY Link Table for the Mudroom 3-way Secondary switch.

The ISY is 51.10.76.

[kclenden]

24 minutes ago, oh2bnMaine said:

I have yet to see the one linked to the motion detector that has issues change state in the ISY admin console. The other changes state consistently.

To me, this would seem to indicate that the links for the problem motion detector are not yet correct.  If you right-click on that motion detector and choose "Diagnostics->Show Device Links Table" it will show you the links that are resident in the device.  If the device is battery operated, you'll have to put it in SET mode first.  Once the links have been displayed, click the "Compare" button.  This will compare the links in the device with what the ISY thinks should be in the device.

If the COMPARE comes back without any errors, and yet the device status does not change in the Admin Console, then I think you're going to have to relink the device to the ISY.  If the COMPARE comes back with errors, then I'd suggest factory resetting the device, and trying "Restore Device" again.