ISY 994 having communication errors after 27 Insteon leak detectors are configured

[uniteduga]

I have a ISY 994i running version 5.0.16B with 5 scenes each representing an apartment.  Each scene (apartment) is to have 9 leak detectors (Insteon 2852-222 v 44) installed.  After 27 leak detectors are configured (9 to a scene) I start getting an error of unable to communicate with (address of leak detector I am installing).  Each scene is controlling a I/O Relay (2450 ver 41).  All the leak detectors are running the same revision (3.0 1919).  I have restarted the ISY, cleared Java cache and even restored the backup to when 25 devices were installed and I am allowed to enter two devices correctly before the errors start.  Is there a limit to the ISY 994i in relation to number of devices?    If I click on the ok button in the error dialog box the installation appears to continue and the newly configured leak detector can be moved to a scene and the activation of the leak detector does activate the relay to close the relay..  The event log is attached

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong or a limit I am unaware of would be appreciated.

ISY-Events-Log.v5.0.16B__Wed 2020.01.01 10.45.15 AM.txt

[uniteduga]

Also a note,  All 45 leak detectors, 5 I/O relays and the ISY 994 are in my office within 5 feet of each other.

 

[larryllix]

I/O Lincs are powerline signals only. Leak Detectors are RF only. The two cannot directly talk to each other.
What is translating your LD signals to powerline signals?

[uniteduga]

Sorry, left that part out....Powerline Serial 2413S modem rev 2.4 1017

[lilyoyo1]

16 minutes ago, uniteduga said:

I have a ISY 994i running version 5.0.16B with 5 scenes each representing an apartment.  Each scene (apartment) is to have 9 leak detectors (Insteon 2852-222 v 44) installed.  After 27 leak detectors are configured (9 to a scene) I start getting an error of unable to communicate with (address of leak detector I am installing).  Each scene is controlling a I/O Relay (2450 ver 41).  All the leak detectors are running the same revision (3.0 1919).  I have restarted the ISY, cleared Java cache and even restored the backup to when 25 devices were installed and I am allowed to enter two devices correctly before the errors start.  Is there a limit to the ISY 994i in relation to number of devices?    If I click on the ok button in the error dialog box the installation appears to continue and the newly configured leak detector can be moved to a scene and the activation of the leak detector does activate the relay to close the relay..  The event log is attached

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong or a limit I am unaware of would be appreciated.

ISY-Events-Log.v5.0.16B__Wed 2020.01.01 10.45.15 AM.txt 6.36 kB · 2 downloads 

It's more about your set up than anything else. Most likely there is still communication between the isy and another device. Since you are dealing with wireless devices, they must be in linking mode prior to anything being done. I'm assuming all are being added to the scenes as controllers which means communication will be happening during the process

[simplextech]

20 minutes ago, uniteduga said:

Also a note,  All 45 leak detectors, 5 I/O relays and the ISY 994 are in my office within 5 feet of each other.

 

This setup isn't going to work when you move them to the other apartments.  As others mentions sensors are RF only and once moved away from the PLM you have nothing that speaks RF so it won't function at all.

[uniteduga]

simplextech,  The way I read this the devices replicate to each other. 

Every INSTEON device is capable of repeating1 INSTEON messages. They will do this automatically as soon as they are powered up—they do not need to be specially installed using some network setup procedure. Adding more devices not only increases the number of available pathways for messages to travel, but it also increases the signal strength of repeated messages because every device that hears a message repeats it in unison with all other devices that heard the same message.

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, uniteduga said:

simplextech,  The way I read this the devices replicate to each other. 

Every INSTEON device is capable of repeating1 INSTEON messages. They will do this automatically as soon as they are powered up—they do not need to be specially installed using some network setup procedure. Adding more devices not only increases the number of available pathways for messages to travel, but it also increases the signal strength of repeated messages because every device that hears a message repeats it in unison with all other devices that heard the same message.

There is a procedure for setting up the devices which you are using.  Adding them to the ISY which actually creates the links in the PLM.  That is a procedure for setup.

Adding devices does increase the available paths and repeats the communications.  For POWERED devices NOT BATTERY.

Sensors are battery powered (unless powered like the MSII) and they are RF ONLY not powerline.  A Sensor needs a dual band device to communicate with.  IOLinc is NOT dual band.

When you move the sensors away from the PLM (dual band) they WILL stop working because there's no path to communicate with the PLM.

Are you working with a real installer or someone to design this system?  Do you have any experience or are you just thinking this is easy because you read about it?

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, uniteduga said:

simplextech,  The way I read this the devices replicate to each other. 

Every INSTEON device is capable of repeating1 INSTEON messages. They will do this automatically as soon as they are powered up—they do not need to be specially installed using some network setup procedure. Adding more devices not only increases the number of available pathways for messages to travel, but it also increases the signal strength of repeated messages because every device that hears a message repeats it in unison with all other devices that heard the same message.

This is only part of the statement. You have to take the whole section in it's entirety. Right before the party you posted, it tells you I'm virtually all situations battery powered devices do not repeat in order to conserve power.

[uniteduga]

Simplextech,  You are correct,  I thought this was an easy configurable system.  So I need to add some dual band modems thru out the apartment building.   Can do,  still do not understand why the communication errors even though all devices are currently in one office.

[simplextech]

8 minutes ago, uniteduga said:

Simplextech,  You are correct,  I thought this was an easy configurable system.  So I need to add some dual band modems thru out the apartment building.   Can do,  still do not understand why the communication errors even though all devices are currently in one office.

I suggest using extenders (dual band repeaters) in each apartment.  Depending on the size of the apartments, location of the leak sensors you will need multiple extenders to ensure the leak sensors are communicating.

Battery operated sensors can only be communicated with when they are in linking mode.  After the timeout (4 minutes) the sensor goes into operational state and lower power mode and the ISY can not communicate with the sensor.  The sensor will send heartbeats every 24'ish hours saying it's alive and the sensor will send a alert when it's wet.  Otherwise there is no communication between the sensor and the ISY.

Notice in all of this the sensor sends to the ISY.  Unless you put the sensor in linking mode the ISY can't initiate communication with the sensor.

 

[Tominnh]

Since updating the ISY to firmware v.5.0.16B my ISY can no longer "see" the leak detectors open door detectors. Is there a work around to get these back? 

[dbuss]

26 minutes ago, Tominnh said:

Since updating the ISY to firmware v.5.0.16B my ISY can no longer "see" the leak detectors open door detectors. Is there a work around to get these back? 

Battery powered devices only send information to the ISY.  The ISY can only communicate with the leak sensors when they are awake. To wake them put them in linking mode. Leak sensors send a heartbeat to the ISY every 24 hours approximately. Of course if a leak is detected, it will send that information immediately. 

[lilyoyo1]

42 minutes ago, Tominnh said:

Since updating the ISY to firmware v.5.0.16B my ISY can no longer "see" the leak detectors open door detectors. Is there a work around to get these back? 

Leak detector or open/close sensors? If you're having problems that's not related to someone else's it's better to start a new thread so it can be used by others seeking help rather than hijack an unrelated thread

[Tominnh]

It's all related to the v.5.0.16B update. Prior to the update there was no issue. From the original post "I have a ISY 994i running version 5.0.16B"

Thank you

PS Another member DM me with the solution. Issue resolved. 

[lilyoyo1]

47 minutes ago, Tominnh said:

It's all related to the v.5.0.16B update. Prior to the update there was no issue. From the original post "I have a ISY 994i running version 5.0.16B"

Thank you

PS Another member DM me with the solution. Issue resolved. 

Glad you got it solved. This person's issue isn't related to that. Though you'd do go off base, when trying to sell help, it's important that the topics are separate as it allows people to easily find a solution to similar situations.

If you could, on one of your other posts, update it with your solution for others who may have the same

[Tominnh]

Will do Thank you!