ISY won't replace KPL with new KPL

[nowandthen]

My old KPL is labeled on the device as a 2486D (sticker on device is 2486DIV6).

New KPL is 2334-232 (as labeled on the box) , on the device itself, it is labeled 2334-2. ISY shows the new device as a 2486D (once I added it).

I backed up the ISY first. Thank goodness!

I added the new KPL using Linc Management, Start Linking.

Pressed and held the reset button on the new KPL until it beeped. ISY sees it immediately. Clicked finish.

New KPL shows up in the root directory of the tree.

After several failed attempts at replace, I decided to test the new KPL to see if the ISY would control it, so I clicked "On", the top button lite up, then "Off", the bottom button lite up. So I know it's good at this point.

I moved the old (dead) KPL to the root directory (same as the new KPL). Right clicked on the ".1" of the new KPL and selected replace with. Selected the old KPL.

ISY does its thing and eventually closes.

When I open the ISY Administration panel. The new KPL has "!" by every button (.1, .A, .B, .C, .D). It will not respond anymore, can't turn it on and off like I could before "replace with".

I restored the ISY and tried again several times to no avail. (Once the old device is gone, it appears that replace with will not work, as the old device is gone. Glad I backed up before beginning).

What am I doing wrong?

[lilyoyo1]

Something isnt right if it was added as a 2486. I would remove it from the ISY, factory reset the device and then re-add it. Prior to re-adding to the ISY, Ensure your Firmware and UI in the ISY matches

[Brian H]

That sounds backwards. You should have clicked on the old KPL and choice the new KPL as the replacement. You probably wrote the old KPLs information into the replacement and now it does not respond at all.

I do agree. The new one should have been found as the  2334-232 not a 2486D

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing_a_Device

[simplextech]

I had a similar issue tonight a KPL.  I replaced once that was throwing errors every now and again.  After I added the new one to the ISY the "replace" option was on the "New" KPL not on the Old one.  Which is backwards.  Possible bug?

[nowandthen]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

That sounds backwards. You should have clicked on the old KPL and choice the new KPL as the replacement. You probably wrote the old KPLs information into the replacement and now it does not respond at all.

I do agree. The new one should have been found as the  2334-232 not a 2486D

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing_a_Device

I think you are right. When I look at the device details, the bold address is correct for the new device, but below it in a smaller font is the old KPL address and 2486D. So I must be doing it backwards. Makes sense.

But still having problems.

I reset the new KPL by holding down the set button.

I restored the ISY from back up (prior to adding new KPL).

added the new KPL. Shows up almost instantly and I can control it from the admin console.

Performed Replace with new device. This time selecting old KPL then picking new KPL.

It partially updated removing .B and .C but .1 and .D were still there. So I repeated replace with.

Now the new device does not show up at all and the old device is back to all "!".

[lilyoyo1]

Holding down the set button does not reset the device. You must air gap it first, then hold it in until the buzzing stops.

[nowandthen]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Holding down the set button does not reset the device. You must air gap it first, then hold it in until the buzzing stops.

Sorry for not being clear. I did pullout the air gap for at least 10 seconds, then held it in  until the beeping stopped.

[nowandthen]

Is there some way that I can see the programming of the old device so I can manually program the new device? The KPL programming of this device is a bit complex.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, nowandthen said:

Is there some way that I can see the programming of the old device so I can manually program the new device? The KPL programming of this device is a bit complex.

When you say manually, I'm assuming you mean use the isy to re-create your scenes and not create them by pushing the set button outside the isy. If it's the latter, you should not do that.

Once a device has  been removed from the isy no. However, unless you completed deleted your scenes, the old ones should still be in the isy. It would be a matter of dropping the new buttons into the right scenes. I

f you've deleted your scenes and have a backup, restore the backup, take note of everything and redo. 

[nowandthen]

Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up manually setting up the new KPL.

Dang I've had several devices die lately. They’ve been installed for years. I replaced a lamplinc, and a Swithclinc. Both gave me some problems in that they replaced, but showed exclamation points after restarting the ISY Admin console.

I stumbled upon the "cure", at least for me. Every device I’ve replaced this weekend, have, once having replaced the old device, shown up in the ISY with exclamation points. I found if I click on the device and click On or Off at the bottom of the ISY window, it seems to wake the device up and it then shows the green 1’s instead of exclamation points. Then I select write updates to device and it then updates the device. I occasionally get a can’t communicate with device but it seems to continue updating.

The second KPL I changed out did take all the updates from the ISY, but I had to kick start it as well. Thank goodness because that KPL was more complicated than the one above, that I manually updated.

[larryllix]

Bad comm problems.

Check your old devices in a different location with a quiet breaker circuit.

 

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[nowandthen]

 

On 1/12/2020 at 12:38 PM, larryllix said:

Bad comm problems.

Check your old devices in a different location with a quiet breaker circuit.

 

Sent using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

I thought noise too.

I almost always use my modified extension cord with one end cut off when I add new devices or replace devices. I did that in these cases. I pigtail to the new device with wire nuts to the extension cord. This allows me to plug it in near my computer. This way I can get it all set up before I commit to it's final location. For the first KPL, I even tried plugging it in to the same receptacle as the PLM. Still had problems. But as I later discovered (and had I know it at the time I did the first KPL), sending a command to the device from within the Admin Console seems to "wake it up", exclamation points become green 1's. Then I write updates to device and all is well. Maybe it is noise issues but I have nothing better to try than the same receptacle as the PLM.

I wish we had an Insteon noise detecting tool like we had with X10.

[larryllix]

The same tool should work. The frequencies are very similar.

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[nowandthen]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:59 PM, larryllix said:

The same tool should work. The frequencies are very similar.

Sent using Tapatalk
 

I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[Brian H]

I use my XTBM X10 signal meter  to see if their is any noise in the X10/Insteon power line signal area.

Since I still have my XTB-IIR  repeater {it respects Insteon} in use and have a large X10 signal in most of my home. I can also read the X10 signal strength with and without a particular electronic device connected. One of my LED TV's outlet. Shows 9.9 Volts X10 with it unplugged and 7.5 Volts with it plugged in.  It is a power line signal absorber.