Super basic Scene question

[sn0cr4sh]

I've seen it mentioned in a few places here that if you want to have a program turn on or off many devices, then a Scene is more efficient than just listing all the devices in the program. Is this true?

I have a program that controls all of my outdoor lights, turning them on or off at sunrise / sunset. I have all of the lights controlled by the program directly. It's rare, but every once in a while, one of the lights will not behave like it was supposed to (it will be on all day when it was supposed to turn off at sunrise, for example).

Should I be using Scenes for this functionality? And if so, how?

As a test, I created a Scene, put all the lights in it, but I don't have any control over what the lights in that Scene are supposed to do. All I am able to see is the live status of each light, and changing the status changes the actual light, not the Scene. Does the Scene not work because there is no controller in it?  

[larryllix]

I've seen it mentioned in a few places here that if you want to have a program turn on or off many devices, then a Scene is more efficient than just listing all the devices in the program. Is this true? I have a program that controls all of my outdoor lights, turning them on or off at sunrise / sunset. I have all of the lights controlled by the program directly. It's rare, but every once in a while, one of the lights will not behave like it was supposed to (it will be on all day when it was supposed to turn off at sunrise, for example). Should I be using Scenes for this functionality? And if so, how?

As a test, I created a Scene, put all the lights in it, but I don't have any control over what the lights in that Scene are supposed to do. All I am able to see is the live status of each light, and changing the status changes the actual light, not the Scene. Does the Scene not work because there is no controller in it?  

 

 

Add an occasional Wait 1 seconds in your off program device control list. You may be flooding your Insteon comm channel, especially if you have some bad comms or a device getting flaky.

 

 Insteon scenes can group devices into one command and lower traffic but there is no status check back and comm problems can result in ISY status assumptions.

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[lilyoyo1]

26 minutes ago, sn0cr4sh said:

I've seen it mentioned in a few places here that if you want to have a program turn on or off many devices, then a Scene is more efficient than just listing all the devices in the program. Is this true?

I have a program that controls all of my outdoor lights, turning them on or off at sunrise / sunset. I have all of the lights controlled by the program directly. It's rare, but every once in a while, one of the lights will not behave like it was supposed to (it will be on all day when it was supposed to turn off at sunrise, for example).

Should I be using Scenes for this functionality? And if so, how?

As a test, I created a Scene, put all the lights in it, but I don't have any control over what the lights in that Scene are supposed to do. All I am able to see is the live status of each light, and changing the status changes the actual light, not the Scene. Does the Scene not work because there is no controller in it?  

You are doing it correctly. Sometimes there are communication issues where a device doesn't receive a command. The larger the scene, the more likely it is to happen. I generally break scenes like this up and turn the on/off 1 at a time via a program

[simplextech]

45 minutes ago, sn0cr4sh said:

As a test, I created a Scene, put all the lights in it, but I don't have any control over what the lights in that Scene are supposed to do.

In your program you select the scene and then turn on/off the scene not the individual lights.

[sn0cr4sh]

Just now, simplextech said:

In your program you select the scene and then turn on/off the scene not the individual lights.

Makes sense, but the issue is I have a couple lights I want to set to dim levels, not just on or off.  I can't seem to edit the Scene to do that.

[larryllix]

Makes sense, but the issue is I have a couple lights I want to set to dim levels, not just on or off.  I can't seem to edit the Scene to do that.

In the scene adjust device levels not the devices listed under the scene grouping.

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[sn0cr4sh]

29 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Add an occasional Wait 1 seconds in your off program device control list. You may be flooding your Insteon comm channel, especially if you have some bad comms or a device getting flaky.

 

 Insteon scenes can group devices into one command and lower traffic but there is no status check back and comm problems can result in ISY status assumptions.

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Good idea. Is there a general rule for how many commands you should have going on at the exact same time?

[sn0cr4sh]

3 minutes ago, larryllix said:

In the scene adjust device levels not the devices listed under the scene grouping.

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Sorry, I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Here is my test scene.If I change any of these settings, it changes it live - the light turns on or off. How would I adjust the Scene, specifically?

 

[larryllix]

Sorry, I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Here is my test scene.If I change any of these settings, it changes it live - the light turns on or off. How would I adjust the Scene, specifically?

 

Oh..you have zwave

Sorry..I cannot help you then. I am not sure zwave supports real scenes.

@asbril may be a better help here.

 

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[simplextech]

7 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Oh..you have zwave

Sorry..I cannot help you then. I am not sure zwave supports real scenes.

@asbril may be a better help here.

 

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I don't know how the ISY implements the "virtual scenes" for z-wave.  I don't know if it creates the device associations or not but I don't think it does and is using behind the scenes so to say programs but again I don't know the internals.

Z-Wave does support scenes through associations (if supported by the devices).  This is a association of one to one or one to many typically used in conjunction with a scene controller (wall keypad) which acts as the master.  This can also be done with the z-wave gateway being the controller to manage the z-wave scene but I also don't think the ISY supports this?  I don't know for sure. 

So... after lots of hmmm... not sure... I would recommend you ask the question to UDI support.

[markv58]

I think the issue is the ISY version, 4.x

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, sn0cr4sh said:

Sorry, I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Here is my test scene.If I change any of these settings, it changes it live - the light turns on or off. How would I adjust the Scene, specifically?

 

Zwave doesn't support dynamic changing of levels the way insteon does. For devices that allows you to set dim levels you have to use parameters.

Due to differences in zwave devices, you're may not support that even if it could be adjusted

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, sn0cr4sh said:

I've seen it mentioned in a few places here that if you want to have a program turn on or off many devices, then a Scene is more efficient than just listing all the devices in the program. Is this true?

I have a program that controls all of my outdoor lights, turning them on or off at sunrise / sunset. I have all of the lights controlled by the program directly. It's rare, but every once in a while, one of the lights will not behave like it was supposed to (it will be on all day when it was supposed to turn off at sunrise, for example).

Should I be using Scenes for this functionality? And if so, how?

As a test, I created a Scene, put all the lights in it, but I don't have any control over what the lights in that Scene are supposed to do. All I am able to see is the live status of each light, and changing the status changes the actual light, not the Scene. Does the Scene not work because there is no controller in it?  

The isy simply sends a command at once to all devices (vs individually) when it comes to a scene. It doesn't actually track scenes itself. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, sn0cr4sh said:

Makes sense, but the issue is I have a couple lights I want to set to dim levels, not just on or off.  I can't seem to edit the Scene to do that.

It's nice to know this type of information early on when first asking for help as different variables require different ways to support

[asbril]

58 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Oh..you have zwave

Sorry..I cannot help you then. I am not sure zwave supports real scenes.

@asbril may be a better help here.

 

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I really don't use scenes as scenes........  I use scenes to group devices and then use such scene (folder) in Mobilinc Pro. I must say that I am really honored that Larryllix thinks that I am knowledgeable about anything in ISY.....

When I have more time (right now we have our grand kids ( 4 yr and 1 1/2 yr) for 6 days babysitting ? I will look in this a bit more.

[simplextech]

12 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Zwave doesn't support dynamic changing of levels the way insteon does.

Not to argue but Z-Wave does support this.  The ISY does not provide a facility to do this.

[markv58]

What I see is 3 z-wave ON/OFF switches listed, if that is what they are then you can't set them to any level other than ON or OFF.

if you click on one of the devices do you have anything in the lower panel?

As best I can recall, there was less control of z-wave devices in the 4.x branch than in the 5.x branch which is why I upgraded.

[gviliunas]

In the 5.x branch, you certainly can control what a Z-Wave device does in a scene.

1. Click on the individual device in the scene

2. Change the drop-down from "default" to "command"

3. Now, from the second drop-down, select what you would like that particular device to do when the scene is activated. Be sure to click "Update" to set your changes.

I have many scenes that work this way.

 

[sn0cr4sh]

41 minutes ago, gviliunas said:

In the 5.x branch, you certainly can control what a Z-Wave device does in a scene.

1. Click on the individual device in the scene

2. Change the drop-down from "default" to "command"

3. Now, from the second drop-down, select what you would like that particular device to do when the scene is activated. Be sure to click "Update" to set your changes.

I have many scenes that work this way.

 

Ok, perfect. Sounds like the issue is that I need to be on a 5.x branch.  Given all that, when it comes time to tell a bunch of devices to do something, all at once, do you recommend the Scene, or by putting them together in a program with short wait times inbetween as Larryllix suggested? Does the Scene functionality alleviate the overload situation?

[larryllix]

Ok, perfect. Sounds like the issue is that I need to be on a 5.x branch.  Given all that, when it comes time to tell a bunch of devices to do something, all at once, do you recommend the Scene, or by putting them together in a program with short wait times inbetween as Larryllix suggested? Does the Scene functionality alleviate the overload situation?

The best manual for this is, manually inserting Waits and repeatedly trying it for success.

 

Hopefully there is one more trial than error.

 

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