Using a program to turn light on & off vs Scene?

[RichTJ99]

Hi – I am trying to use a program vs a scene using a keypad. 

 

Ideally, I am looking to do timers as lots of lights seem to get left on all the time. 

 

So – Press A, mirror light turns on, Press A again, lights turn off.  Press A, lights on, 30 minute time, if no one presses anything, Mirror lights off.

 

I think the program below would work for on and a walk away but not if someone presses A again to turn it off.  What am I missing here?

 

I would love to have the Keypad button turn off via the timer program but it looks like that would not work. 

 

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

1st Floor Bath - Mirror -

If

        Control '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Keypad - A' is switched On

 

Then

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' On

        Wait  30 minutes

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

[larryllix]

Try this

1st Floor Bath - Mirror -

If

        Control '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Keypad - A' is switched On
Then
       run  (If) Program2 
Else
   ------

Program2   (DISABLED)   <--------------------------------------------------
If
     1st Floor Bath Mirror status is Off

Then

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' On
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to ON

        Wait  30 minutes

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to OFF

Else
       Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off  - No Actions
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to OFF 

If you combine this in one program and the device you are controlling is a trigger in the same program's If section it will oscillate or undo your actions.

[lilyoyo1]

9 hours ago, RichTJ99 said:

Hi – I am trying to use a program vs a scene using a keypad. 

 

Ideally, I am looking to do timers as lots of lights seem to get left on all the time. 

 

So – Press A, mirror light turns on, Press A again, lights turn off.  Press A, lights on, 30 minute time, if no one presses anything, Mirror lights off.

 

I think the program below would work for on and a walk away but not if someone presses A again to turn it off.  What am I missing here?

 

I would love to have the Keypad button turn off via the timer program but it looks like that would not work. 

 

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

1st Floor Bath - Mirror -

If

        Control '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Keypad - A' is switched On

 

Then

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' On

        Wait  30 minutes

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

Automation should be experienced and not really interacted with. Having to do unnecessary button presses ruins the experience as its not making anything more convenient. While one could keep hitting buttons to keep lights on, its not natural. Secondly, lights turning off at the wrong moment simply ruins the whole experience. 

This is where using a motion sensor makes most sense. It'll allow you to keep the lights on when a room is occupied and off when it is not. Instead of doing it the way you're trying to, I would invest in a motion sensor. With that, regardless of whats on, everything would turn off if the room is unoccupied (or simply the light that you want). Much more natural flow which makes the system much more enjoyable

[oberkc]

8 hours ago, RichTJ99 said:

So – Press A, mirror light turns on, Press A again, lights turn off.  Press A, lights on, 30 minute time, if no one presses anything, Mirror lights off.

One thing that is catching my attention is that I don't see any way to extend the 30 minute time.  Is this your intention?  What do you mean, in statement above, "if no one presses anything"?  Do you intent to have something to press in order to keep the lights on?

 

[RichTJ99]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies - this looks like it should work well!

My only question is regarding the "Set KPL LED scene to ON"

It looks like I need to create a scene for the Keypad buttons?  I have not done that before but it might be a great idea to keep the lights in sync if i am going the program route vs scene route for the keypad buttons.

I was thinking - i have 3 lights - center, mirror, accent.  

Maybe - center light should be linked via scene to the kpl on & off - this way if the ISY goes down for some reason at least some lights would work?

Can I make a KPL LED scene will all responders, no controllers?  Might be cool to do all KPL's in the house so they get cleared at night.

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

Try this

1st Floor Bath - Mirror -

If

        Control '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Keypad - A' is switched On
Then
       run  (If) Program2 
Else
   ------

Program2   (DISABLED)   <--------------------------------------------------
If
     1st Floor Bath Mirror status is Off

Then

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' On
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to ON

        Wait  30 minutes

        Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to OFF

Else
       Set '111st Flr Bath / 1st Floor Bath - Mirror' Off  - No Actions
       Wait 1 second
       Set KPL LED scene to OFF 

If you combine this in one program and the device you are controlling is a trigger in the same program's If section it will oscillate or undo your actions.

 

[RichTJ99]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Automation should be experienced and not really interacted with. Having to do unnecessary button presses ruins the experience as its not making anything more convenient. While one could keep hitting buttons to keep lights on, its not natural. Secondly, lights turning off at the wrong moment simply ruins the whole experience. 

This is where using a motion sensor makes most sense. It'll allow you to keep the lights on when a room is occupied and off when it is not. Instead of doing it the way you're trying to, I would invest in a motion sensor. With that, regardless of whats on, everything would turn off if the room is unoccupied (or simply the light that you want). Much more natural flow which makes the system much more enjoyable

So - you make a good point.  Only issue is some of my house motion sensors (which look a bit different) are cameras in public areas - i dont want to 'freak' anyone out about a motion sensor in a 'private' area.  However - maybe with some education it could pass the waf.  

3 hours ago, oberkc said:

One thing that is catching my attention is that I don't see any way to extend the 30 minute time.  Is this your intention?  What do you mean, in statement above, "if no one presses anything"?  Do you intent to have something to press in order to keep the lights on?

 

That is a good point too.  I wasnt looking to extend it.  More if someone presses the button (to turn it off) the counter should go away so that if someone else walks in 29 minutes later and then presses the A button again, it shouldnt turn on & turn off a minute later (30 minutes from original start).

[lilyoyo1]

27 minutes ago, RichTJ99 said:

So - you make a good point.  Only issue is some of my house motion sensors (which look a bit different) are cameras in public areas - i dont want to 'freak' anyone out about a motion sensor in a 'private' area.  However - maybe with some education it could pass the waf.  

 

I can understand that. The only people coming into my home are those I'm close to. They already know cameras aren't in private places such as bathrooms and bedrooms. Anywhere else, I readily admit there are cameras around. My favorite line is; "it's not the cameras you see that gets you, it's the ones that you don't". 

[larryllix]

44 minutes ago, RichTJ99 said:

Hi,

Thanks for the replies - this looks like it should work well!

My only question is regarding the "Set KPL LED scene to ON"

It looks like I need to create a scene for the Keypad buttons?  I have not done that before but it might be a great idea to keep the lights in sync if i am going the program route vs scene route for the keypad buttons.

I was thinking - i have 3 lights - center, mirror, accent.  

Maybe - center light should be linked via scene to the kpl on & off - this way if the ISY goes down for some reason at least some lights would work?

Can I make a KPL LED scene will all responders, no controllers?  Might be cool to do all KPL's in the house so they get cleared at night.

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

 

I am not sure I understood your requests completely but the removable lines are there to activate the KPL LED that you tapped.
KPL LEDs, unfortunately can only be operated by scenes. It's s hame to have a scene with only one device in each but....The brightness  level can be modified via ISY programs but all LEDs in the same KPL share the setting. I use a slight delay as Insteon signal flooding can be a problem in other places. With human operations a 1 second delay is not too bad.

I also use another technique with a switchlinc dimmer to operate 6 different colours in my bathroom. If you tap the switch within 2-3  seconds of the last tap it rotates the colours. If you wait longer and tap it again it turns the lights off.

[RichTJ99]

15 hours ago, larryllix said:

       Set KPL LED scene to ON

 

Sorry - I think this is what i was/am confused on.  What is the KPL LED Scene?  Is this what you mean by a scene for each button for control?

[dbwarner5]

1 hour ago, RichTJ99 said:

Sorry - I think this is what i was/am confused on.  What is the KPL LED Scene?  Is this what you mean by a scene for each button for control?

Think of it this way.... the KPL button is not directly connected to the light that it is controlling. So if a program turns on the light, the KPL has no way of knowing that, since in reality they are two different devices in your system. Previously, it sounds like you had a scene where the light and the KPL were both in the scene. This created a connection to each other, so that if you turned on the KPL, the light would turn on. No problem there. 

However, now if you have a program turn on the light, this is an independent device from the KPL and the KPL won't turn on. To keep them in sync, you need to create a scene with just the one KPL button in it. Then your program would turn on the light, followed by turning on the KPL only scene, and hence keeping them in "sync".

Hope that helps you get the general concept so you can apply it to your goals above. Here are some of my KPL buttons.. I call them all KP's to recognize them as such. Sometimes when I press one, I want the others to do certain things, so sometimes I have multiple KPLS in the same scene. 

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, RichTJ99 said:

Sorry - I think this is what i was/am confused on.  What is the KPL LED Scene?  Is this what you mean by a scene for each button for control?

Clean out and delete other scenes created for each KPL LED that you want to use for programs.
Create a scene for each KPL LED that only controls that LED. Now control each scene with ISY programs because your can't directly control KPL LEDs with programs.

See @dbwarner5's post above. He tells a different analogy that was good.