Kentinada Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 The DB didn't say anything about beaming for the GE plugs so should I assume they don't?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 14 minutes ago, Kentinada said: The DB didn't say anything about beaming for the GE plugs so should I assume they don't? Which model plug do you have? For the most part, the newer ge enbrighten line supports beaming. However the early 500 series of them didn't do so across the line-up. Unfortunately some are still being sold. This has always been my biggest issue with zwave (besides the popcorn effect). None of their databases are complete and you can't simply buy knowing it's going to do what it is expected of it. When it comes to beaming, only the device that is closest to your lock needs to support beaming. Depending on where your motion sensor will go, beaming may not matter.
asbril Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Kentinada said: @dbuss Thanks! What about beaming? Is that another feather I need to look for on Z-wave devices? I hear that is important if I want to use door locks. A feather on your hat for asking about this feature
simplextech Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Kentinada said: The DB didn't say anything about beaming for the GE plugs so should I assume they don't? Each device in the Z-Wave DB has a conformance statement that you can view or download. In there it will show all of the features that are supported by that device. If Beaming is listed as No then it's not supported by that device. Often there are multiple versions of a similar named device so you have to be very specific about model AND version.
wuench Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 Does the 500 series card allow the ISY to send ZWave group commands? Ever since adding my zwave blinds my ISY scene reliability has dropped noticeably. Even my insteon only scenes and elk triggers seem to have long delays, or just get dropped entirely.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, wuench said: Does the 500 series card allow the ISY to send ZWave group commands? Ever since adding my zwave blinds my ISY scene reliability has dropped noticeably. Even my insteon only scenes and elk triggers seem to have long delays, or just get dropped entirely. What are you referring to in regards to group messages? There are different messages that can be sent. Zwave should have nothing to do with insteon. If both are acting up, I would assume an errant device is sending signals clogging up the Isy's ability to talk to other devices. Set the event viewer to level 3 and check communication
lilyoyo1 Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, wuench said: Does the 500 series card allow the ISY to send ZWave group commands? Ever since adding my zwave blinds my ISY scene reliability has dropped noticeably. Even my insteon only scenes and elk triggers seem to have long delays, or just get dropped entirely. What are you referring to in regards to group messages? There are different messages that can be sent. Zwave should have nothing to do with insteon. If both are acting up, I would assume an errant device is sending signals clogging up the Isy's ability to talk to other devices. Set the event viewer to level 3 and check communication
wuench Posted July 18, 2020 Posted July 18, 2020 It was my understanding based on other threads that the ISY zwave is not able to send a single zwave scene/group message. It has to send each device sequentially for devices added to an ISY scene. My blinds respond that way as well, each one is staggered in the scene based on the order they were added to the zwave network. The remote that came with the blinds that I added as a secondary controller doesn't behave this way, all the blinds react simultaneously. There is nothing noticeable in the event viewer, but the system busy dialog pops up for a good 15-20 seconds when a fast on/off is clicked for the scene with 8 blinds. Elk messages don't seem to be processed while this is happenning, sometimes they are queued and happen after, sometimes they just seem to be dropped. So my question is does the new zwave card allow the zwave devices in a scene to be controlled with a single group/scene message versus 8 individual message?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, wuench said: It was my understanding based on other threads that the ISY zwave is not able to send a single zwave scene/group message. It has to send each device sequentially for devices added to an ISY scene. My blinds respond that way as well, each one is staggered in the scene based on the order they were added to the zwave network. The remote that came with the blinds that I added as a secondary controller doesn't behave this way, all the blinds react simultaneously. There is nothing noticeable in the event viewer, but the system busy dialog pops up for a good 15-20 seconds when a fast on/off is clicked for the scene with 8 blinds. Elk messages don't seem to be processed while this is happenning, sometimes they are queued and happen after, sometimes they just seem to be dropped. So my question is does the new zwave card allow the zwave devices in a scene to be controlled with a single group/scene message versus 8 individual message? No it does not. Each device receives information 1 at a time. That's just how zwave itself works. Associations (which is what you're inquiring about) is for device level communication. It allows devices to talk to each other directly bypassing the controller such as with a 3way. Unfortunately with associations there are downsides. All devices have to support this which many do not and you are limited to 4 max in most cases for the ones that do. Another depends on what group they use for their association (for those that support association). If one uses group 1 and another uses group 3 then it could cause issues as either one may be used for the controller to talk to the device. (ISY can set associations for group 1). The biggest downside is that status is not tracked except the master switch. Regardless of status capability, when associations are used, the responding devices do not show their status so you would need to query it. The remote works the way it does due to its association with the blinds as I explained above (which is what is was designed for). Because the ISY is processing your commands and waiting for acknowledgements from your blinds, everything else gets queued until those commands are processed.
simplextech Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, wuench said: My blinds respond that way as well, each one is staggered in the scene based on the order they were added to the zwave network. Likely they are reacting based on the order they are in the scene. There's no relationship to their order of when added to the Z-Wave mesh. 1 hour ago, wuench said: The remote that came with the blinds that I added as a secondary controller doesn't behave this way, all the blinds react simultaneously. The remote is using Z-Wave Associations directly to the blinds. Z-Wave Associations or aka "Z-Wave Scenes" use broadcast messaging instead of serial which is why devices in a z-wave scene/association group will all react at the same time. Normal Z-Wave function whether it be through the ISY or other controller is a serial process and creates the notorious "Popcorn" effect with lighting and with anything else that you want to act in unison but it won't. Downside is the ISY also does not support z-wave associations. 1 hour ago, wuench said: when a fast on/off is clicked Z-Wave doesn't know what a fast on/off is and it's likely causing the ISY some headaches trying it and then failing back to just on/off. You could change this to be just on/off and see if that help any at all. 1 hour ago, wuench said: Elk messages don't seem to be processed while this is happenning This sounds like the ISY CPU is overwhelmed trying to process the commands and things are getting backed up or dropped.
asbril Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, simplextech said: Wave doesn't know what a fast on/off is and it's likely causing the ISY some headaches trying it and then failing back to just on/off. You could change this to be just on/off and see if that help any at all. In my experience Fast Off/On can mean different things in ISY. With a dimming light, Fast On, turns on the light to 100 %, and Fast Off, to Zero. With some switches, Fast On/Off can be used in programs to activate a scene with double click on the switch.
simplextech Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, asbril said: In my experience Fast Off/On can mean different things in ISY. With a dimming light, Fast On, turns on the light to 100 %, and Fast Off, to Zero. With some switches, Fast On/Off can be used in programs to activate a scene with double click on the switch. Z-Wave however does not know what " fast on" is as it's not a z-wave thing it's an Insteon thing.
asbril Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, simplextech said: Z-Wave however does not know what " fast on" is as it's not a z-wave thing it's an Insteon thing. I defer to you that it is not a Zwave thing, but I have no Insteon devices and no PLM, so it must be a ISY thing.
simplextech Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, asbril said: so it must be a ISY thing It's a Insteon thing as it's part of the Insteon protocol and supported by other platforms.
asbril Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 Just now, simplextech said: It's a Insteon thing as it's part of the Insteon protocol and supported by other platforms. simplextech, I know that you are far more knowledgeable than I am, but I have no Insteon and Fast On corresponds to a double click with Homeseer switches.
simplextech Posted July 19, 2020 Posted July 19, 2020 Just now, asbril said: Fast On corresponds to a double click with Homeseer switches. With the ISY. In HomeSeer there is no "Fast On/Off" command for the Z-Wave switch. The ISY does wrap devices like you said to work with the command. What I pointed out was specifically that "Fast On" was not a Z-Wave command. The ISY is taking the Fast On and trying to convert it to a Z-Wave On. From a ISY executed scene this actually can use more CPU cycles than is needed as from the ISY to the device Fast On doesn't mean anything. Now in your case.... Double Click on Scene Controllers like the HS dimmers gets translated into the ISY "Fast On" scene command structure. This is the ISY but not Z-Wave.
wuench Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 Thanks for the info... I use faston/fastoff because that is the only command that opens the blinds correctly, but I see the same issues with dim to 0%/100% (which also works). On/Off only opens/closes them to 50%. Two devices show up, binary controller and class C motor controller. These are Bali autoview blinds, so it sounds like it is a quirk with them and the new 500 series card will not change this behavior. I am primarily an insteon user, just use zwave for locks and these shades. Thinking i'll have to go with plan B and find a separate zwave controller to offload the ISY so my insteon scenes go back to their reliability level.... Maybe the elk zwave controller will work... Or maybe get a second ISY...
tmorse305 Posted July 20, 2020 Posted July 20, 2020 I also split z-wave off of my ISY. I'm using Hubitat with good success, but just for locks, I don't have shades.
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