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Zwave Failing to Add - Inovelli Switch


asperber

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I have an Inovelli switch I'm trying to add to my ISY but everytime I add it it gives me an error "the zwave network failed to securely include your new device".

 

I have tried factory resets on the switch and excluding it, but can't get it to pair.  Any suggestions?

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55 minutes ago, asperber said:

I have an Inovelli switch I'm trying to add to my ISY but everytime I add it it gives me an error "the zwave network failed to securely include your new device".

 

I have tried factory resets on the switch and excluding it, but can't get it to pair.  Any suggestions?

Join the club.......  At the beginning I was enthusiastic about Inovelli's new products and  Eric gave decent customer support, but over time I have become disenchanted with their switches. I wonder why they don't just use the same include/exclude system as other brands. I have 2 or 3 new Inovelli switches that I was unable to include in my ISY.

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37 minutes ago, asbril said:

Join the club.......  At the beginning I was enthusiastic about Inovelli's new products and  Eric gave decent customer support, but over time I have become disenchanted with their switches. I wonder why they don't just use the same include/exclude system as other brands. I have 2 or 3 new Inovelli switches that I was unable to include in my ISY.

Is Eric even participating in this forum any longer?  I see him and other Inovelli staff posting in the Hubitat forum quite often.  Seems they have a favorite hub.

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  • 1 month later...

FWIW, here is the device communications even log from an attempt to exclude the device followed by another attempt to pair it.

Wed 05/20/2020 17:03:55 : [ZWAVE-TX-NR     ] [0105004B01ED5D]                        REQ ZW_REMOVE_NODE_FROM_NETWORK FUNCID=1 STATUS=237 UID=93
Wed 05/20/2020 17:03:55 : [UZW-CMD 2       ] Start Exclude
Wed 05/20/2020 17:03:55 : Listening for Z-Wave devices to remove from the network
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:42 : [ZWAVE-TX-NR     ] [0105004B05EE5A]                        REQ ZW_REMOVE_NODE_FROM_NETWORK FUNCID=5 STATUS=238 UID=90
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:42 : [UZW-CMD 8       ] Cancel Include/Exclude/Learn
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:42 : Removing Z-Wave devices stopped
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:43 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030020DC]                            REQ MEMORY_GET_ID
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:43 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030002FE]                            REQ SERIAL_API_GET_INIT_DATA
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:43 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030005F9]                            REQ ZW_GET_CONTROLLER_CAPABILITIES
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:43 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030002FE]                            REQ SERIAL_API_GET_INIT_DATA
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:43 : Device 51 excluded from Z-Wave network
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:51 : [ZWAVE-TX-NR     ] [0105004AC1EF9E]                        REQ ZW_ADD_NODE_TO_NETWORK
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:51 : [UZW-CMD 1       ] Start Include
Wed 05/20/2020 17:05:51 : Listening for Z-Wave devices to add to the network
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:13 : Z-Wave device detected, retrieving info 2
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:13 : Z-Wave device detected, retrieving info 3
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:18 : Z-Wave device detected, retrieving info 5
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:18 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [0105004A85F0C5]                        REQ ZW_ADD_NODE_TO_NETWORK
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:18 : Adding Z-Wave devices stopped
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:18 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030020DC]                            REQ MEMORY_GET_ID
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:18 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030002FE]                            REQ SERIAL_API_GET_INIT_DATA
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:19 : [ZWAVE-TX        ] [01030005F9]                            REQ ZW_GET_CONTROLLER_CAPABILITIES
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:19 : Exchanging data with secure Z-Wave device 52 of type 4.17.1
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:19 : Adding secure Z-Wave device
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:19 : [ZWAVE-TX    52.0] [98/04] Security Scheme Get - supported=........ ACK,AUTO To=0x34
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:29 : [ZWAVE-ADDSECURE] Error 3
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:29 : Failed to include secure Z-Wave device 52 of type 4.17.1
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:29 : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices
Wed 05/20/2020 17:06:29 : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

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One more data point (which makes me think this is an ISY issue, not Inovelli) - it turns out that it *does* pair, just that the ISY can't see it. I also have Home Assistant running with a Z-Stick, and that can both see and control the switch after pairing with no problems.

I'm going to go ahead and open up a support issue on this, as it is hopefully something than can be fixed easily in firmware.

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41 minutes ago, drich said:

One more data point (which makes me think this is an ISY issue, not Inovelli) - it turns out that it *does* pair, just that the ISY can't see it. I also have Home Assistant running with a Z-Stick, and that can both see and control the switch after pairing with no problems.

I'm going to go ahead and open up a support issue on this, as it is hopefully something than can be fixed easily in firmware.

Also if you can add it to the "Issue" list on the github.

https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/ZWave-Devices

I've been compiling a supported devices lists using the issue tracker and setting the tags as works or not.  If you look at one of the existing and just copy the same format that would be great. 

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33 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Also if you can add it to the "Issue" list on the github.

https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/ZWave-Devices

I've been compiling a supported devices lists using the issue tracker and setting the tags as works or not.  If you look at one of the existing and just copy the same format that would be great. 

I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to know whether this is an Inovelli or ISY issue, but it is defnitely a complication that Inovelli inclusion/exclusion method is very different from the major brands.

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5 minutes ago, asbril said:

I am not sufficiently knowledgeable to know whether this is an Inovelli or ISY issue, but it is defnitely a complication that Inovelli inclusion/exclusion method is very different from the major brands.

There are some known issues with some Inovelli devices and there are firmware updates available for most of their devices.  Problem being ISY doesn't support firmware doing firmware updates.

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1 hour ago, simplextech said:

There are some known issues with some Inovelli devices and there are firmware updates available for most of their devices.  Problem being ISY doesn't support firmware doing firmware updates.

I know that, but is there a way to manually upgrade the firmware ? I have several Inovelli switches but will no longer new Inovelli switches until they perform better

 

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1 minute ago, asbril said:

I know that, but is there a way to manually upgrade the firmware ? I have several Inovelli switches but will no longer new Inovelli switches until they perform better

 

Yes you can use other controllers.  A common/simple method is with a USB Z-Wave stick and then download the PC Controller from Silicon Labs.  It's a free download but you have to register on their site as it's part of the Z-Wave SDK.

Here's a HOWTO article for updating Zooz devices.  The process is the same though for all Z-Wave devices.  The difference is getting the firmware file from the vendor.

https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/253-how-to-perform-an-ota-firmware-update-on-zooz-devices/

 

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52 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Yes you can use other controllers.  A common/simple method is with a USB Z-Wave stick and then download the PC Controller from Silicon Labs.  It's a free download but you have to register on their site as it's part of the Z-Wave SDK.

Here's a HOWTO article for updating Zooz devices.  The process is the same though for all Z-Wave devices.  The difference is getting the firmware file from the vendor.

https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/253-how-to-perform-an-ota-firmware-update-on-zooz-devices/

 

Would this one work ?

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4 minutes ago, asbril said:

Would this one work ?

Yes.  But there are much cheaper options.  I would go ahead and buy the newest SiLabs USB 700 series stick.....

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/SLUSB001A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2FbfQkoj%2BNEfRvhA8yqctH3nhvzmHIE%3D

At $19.00 for the latest/greatest you can't beat that with a stick!

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12 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Yes.  But there are much cheaper options.  I would go ahead and buy the newest SiLabs USB 700 series stick.....

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/SLUSB001A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2FbfQkoj%2BNEfRvhA8yqctH3nhvzmHIE%3D

At $19.00 for the latest/greatest you can't beat that with a stick!

Thanks Simplextech for all your help over the past few years. I just ordered the Silabs stick

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5 hours ago, simplextech said:

Also if you can add it to the "Issue" list on the github.

https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/ZWave-Devices

I've been compiling a supported devices lists using the issue tracker and setting the tags as works or not.  If you look at one of the existing and just copy the same format that would be great. 

Looks like it is already there: https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc/ZWave-Devices/issues/18

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey guys,

Wanted to pop in and let you know we've ordered our own ISY to start working on figuring this out. 

@asbril - I sincerely apologize for any lack of response and that you feel like we just abandoned you. Truth is we're a 4 person team and often times we couldn't diagnose your issues. However, not an excuse and I'm sorry.

We did, however do some extensive work with another customer and their setup and discovered that there may be an issue with ISY. You can read more about it here: https://community.inovelli.com/t/isy-and-inovelli/2734/3

Anyway, the point of this post was to let you know first, sorry for dropping the ball on some responses and second, to let you all know we do have our own ISY system now so we can better diagnose the issues.

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Thanks Eric, I was great believer in Inovelli, especially because of its innovative approach (I guess that is in the name).  Your switch has been a "life"-saver for one of my 3-way setups, as the auxiliary switchbox is in concrete with no space for an intelligent switch. Being able to use a plain old standard switch to connect to a smart Inovelli switch at the main switch works great.

On the other hand, inclusion and exclusion, with my ISY, of Inovelli switches gives ongoing headaches. I have two of your new "no neutral" switches and I was not able to connect either of them. Next week I will put together a dummy box so that I connect a switch close to my ISY and try to include one of these "no neutral"  switches WITH neutral and see how this goes.

I appreciate your attention to this. I am bit surprised that it is mentioned that ISY is not really Zwave certified. Knowing how UDI works, this sounds doubtful.

 

BTW, there is need for a Zwave switch that controls both a fan and a fan light in one (of course with dimming and speed control). There is no good Zwave alternative for the Insteon Fanlinc.  I have resolved this by separating fan and fan light control into two switches, but one switch would be nice.

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9 minutes ago, asbril said:

I am bit surprised that it is mentioned that ISY is not really Zwave certified. Knowing how UDI works, this sounds doubtful.

That user post is a half-truth....

The ISY994i ZW Firmware 4.3.0 is a Z-Wave Certified gateway.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1228?selectedFrequencyId=-1

The ISY994I ZW+ Firmware 5.x is still in BETA and knowing UDI will go through certification when they are ready and can fully pass certification.

The other hub mentioned in the post is not Z-Wave or Z-Wave Plus certified at all however Inovelli has done a lot of work with them on custom "drivers" and firmware updates to make the products "work".  The other software based system is the only one of the three in discussion that is Z-Wave Plus certified and that is dependent on the version 3 of the software as the new version 4 unless they use the old v3 z-wave plugin will also require going through the certification process again.

As long as Inovelli sticks to standards of Z-Wave Plus then in time the ISY will be certified and things should work out of the box no fuss.  However until both sides are fully compliant with standards it's all up in the air.  At this point in time the ball is in the ISY corner waiting on them to release and certify.

I've not received any product from Inovelli to perform any testing/validation with so I can't say for sure where any of the issues originate from.  I have been doing testing with Zooz and ISY for a while and there have been issues found that are being addressed.

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26 minutes ago, simplextech said:

That user post is a half-truth....

The ISY994i ZW Firmware 4.3.0 is a Z-Wave Certified gateway.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1228?selectedFrequencyId=-1

The ISY994I ZW+ Firmware 5.x is still in BETA and knowing UDI will go through certification when they are ready and can fully pass certification.

The other hub mentioned in the post is not Z-Wave or Z-Wave Plus certified at all however Inovelli has done a lot of work with them on custom "drivers" and firmware updates to make the products "work".  The other software based system is the only one of the three in discussion that is Z-Wave Plus certified and that is dependent on the version 3 of the software as the new version 4 unless they use the old v3 z-wave plugin will also require going through the certification process again.

As long as Inovelli sticks to standards of Z-Wave Plus then in time the ISY will be certified and things should work out of the box no fuss.  However until both sides are fully compliant with standards it's all up in the air.  At this point in time the ball is in the ISY corner waiting on them to release and certify.

I've not received any product from Inovelli to perform any testing/validation with so I can't say for sure where any of the issues originate from.  I have been doing testing with Zooz and ISY for a while and there have been issues found that are being addressed.

Thanks for the clarification.

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34 minutes ago, asbril said:

On the other hand, inclusion and exclusion, with my ISY, of Inovelli switches gives ongoing headaches. I have two of your new "no neutral" switches and I was not able to connect either of them.

We'll try as well. I'll have Eric M follow up. I'm not sure what the issue could be but yes, I'd love to see a video to see what's happening.

35 minutes ago, asbril said:

I appreciate your attention to this. I am bit surprised that it is mentioned that ISY is not really Zwave certified. Knowing how UDI works, this sounds doubtful.

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I have a note out to the Z-Wave Alliance to see what's happening.

56 minutes ago, asbril said:

BTW, there is need for a Zwave switch that controls both a fan and a fan light in one (of course with dimming and speed control). There is no good Zwave alternative for the Insteon Fanlinc.  I have resolved this by separating fan and fan light control into two switches, but one switch would be nice.

We do have a Fan/Light switch that just started Mass Production here (and I believe you are in the chain lol): https://community.inovelli.com/t/fan-light-switch-project-hurricane-mass-production-starts-05-29-05-30/23

40 minutes ago, simplextech said:

As long as Inovelli sticks to standards of Z-Wave Plus then in time the ISY will be certified and things should work out of the box no fuss.  However until both sides are fully compliant with standards it's all up in the air.  At this point in time the ball is in the ISY corner waiting on them to release and certify.

Can you let me know when you say, "both sides are fully compliant"? I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly as our switches are all fully compliant and Z-Wave Certified.

41 minutes ago, simplextech said:

I've not received any product from Inovelli to perform any testing/validation with so I can't say for sure where any of the issues originate from.  I have been doing testing with Zooz and ISY for a while and there have been issues found that are being addressed.

I'm happy to send you some - shoot me a PM and we'll get some out to you. But I also guess I'm a little confused here as well. If our products are Certified, and work well on other platforms (and Zooz's do to), what would be the issue as to why they don't work well on ISY? Genuine question, I'm not a programmer by any means, so I'm more curious then anything.

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Absolute certification vs non certified has nothing to do with whether or not a product will work with a particular controller or not. Certification only means that a device has passed the zwave alliance requirements (technincal and market) that it conforms to specific sets of requirements. This is why both chips are able to work with other devices while UDI is in this process (and partly why 5.0 is not official).

I havent installed inovelli in any home that Ive done ISY installations either so I cant speak on any reasons why there is problems with the isy. I've tried many of different brands of stuff over the years and do notice there is a difference. For example, I no longer use fibaro as the changes they've made to newer devices have been finicky when it comes to the ISY. On the other hand, Dome works without issue (which has replaced fibaro as my go to).

Ive found this to be true with other controllers as well. With smartthings, there are many "certified" devices that still needs custom device handlers. Once inovelli comes out with their fan controller, I may take a look at it to see if I can find any issues myself (and if its worth installing on jobs). I can say that I am pleased that Inovelli is at least willing to figure out something unlike fibaro who simply gave me the run around.

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