RTG Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 I have a wireless, solar powered driveway alarm at the end of my long driveway. If someone comes down my driveway it triggers a chime/tune in a speaker plugged in to my house. I would like to use the sensor connection on an Insteon I/O Linc Remote Controller (#2450) to sense power going to that speaker and trigger events in my ISY994i/IR Pro. For example, if someone walks or drives down my driveway after 2:00 AM (when my landscape lighting has turned off), I would like for the driveway alarm speaker to trigger the I/O Linc to turn on the landscape lighting for 10-15 minutes. I can handle the programming once I get the I/O Linc to recognize that the driveway alarm has been triggered. If I solder wire to the two speaker wires and connect them to the I/O Linc sensor and ground, will the I/O Linc Remote Controller sense the momentary power that goes to the speaker? (I presume that is DC power.) I am certainly open to other ideas. What I can't do is run power all the way to the end of my driveway to install a standalone Insteon motion detector. All wisdom is appreciated!
gzahar Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 Doubtful, but I used one of these in front of an I/O Linc to detect audio out of a Ring chime unit. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32879003728.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.66e81bfcT3GAjw
RTG Posted October 2, 2020 Author Posted October 2, 2020 It’s a Hosmart 1/2 Mile Long Range Solar Wireless Driveway Alarm, but I’m not sure what the model # is. It has a round speaker. Thanks gzahar for the link. I would actually like to disconnect the speaker entirely, but the option you provided might be a very simple solution I can live with. I don’t really need the sound, and I’m concerned that other sounds might trigger the I/O Linc. But I might still be able to work with this.
Brian H Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, RTG said: I have a wireless, solar powered driveway alarm at the end of my long driveway. If someone comes down my driveway it triggers a chime/tune in a speaker plugged in to my house. I would like to use the sensor connection on an Insteon I/O Linc Remote Controller (#2450) to sense power going to that speaker and trigger events in my ISY994i/IR Pro. For example, if someone walks or drives down my driveway after 2:00 AM (when my landscape lighting has turned off), I would like for the driveway alarm speaker to trigger the I/O Linc to turn on the landscape lighting for 10-15 minutes. I can handle the programming once I get the I/O Linc to recognize that the driveway alarm has been triggered. If I solder wire to the two speaker wires and connect them to the I/O Linc sensor and ground, will the I/O Linc Remote Controller sense the momentary power that goes to the speaker? (I presume that is DC power.) I am certainly open to other ideas. What I can't do is run power all the way to the end of my driveway to install a standalone Insteon motion detector. All wisdom is appreciated! The 2450 I/OLinc has a 5 volt sensing signal on it. When you pull it to Ground the Sensor Input is ON. It is not designed to have an external voltage applied to it. Putting an external voltage on it could cause problems. If you have a voltage sensor that gives a dry closure to the 2450's Sensor Input to Ground. That should work. Edited October 2, 2020 by Brian H
RTG Posted October 2, 2020 Author Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Brian H said: The 2450 I/OLinc has a 5 volt sensing signal on it. When you pull it to Ground the Sensor Input is ON. It is not designed to have an external voltage applied to it. Putting an external voltage on it could cause problems. If you have a voltage sensor that gives a dry closure to the 2450's Sensor Input to Ground. That should work. Thanks Brian. Do you mean something like this? https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Voltage-Detection-Arduino-Electronic/dp/B01HTC4XKY/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=voltage+sensor&qid=1601639842&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVlcwR1ZDUzIwRzVZJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTE1MjE4V1ZTTDc5WjlNNlkyJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxNTc1OTUzQUFCQUVMTVkwQ01SJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
epfunke Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 Good morning the link for the voltage detection arduino in the previous post will not work, it is simply a voltage divider. the link that @gzaharposted look like it should work well.... Looks like it has adjustable input levels/ timeout, but may take some adjustment to make it work i looked at a picture of what may be you unit. is there an led that lights when motion is detected? not sure of your electronics knowledge, but maybe connect to that led and have a transistor drive a small relay, or the IOlink directly?
RTG Posted October 2, 2020 Author Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, epfunke said: Good morning the link for the voltage detection arduino in the previous post will not work, it is simply a voltage divider. the link that @gzaharposted look like it should work well.... Looks like it has adjustable input levels/ timeout, but may take some adjustment to make it work i looked at a picture of what may be you unit. is there an led that lights when motion is detected? not sure of your electronics knowledge, but maybe connect to that led and have a transistor drive a small relay, or the IOlink directly? Thanks @epfunke. I'm not an electrician, but I play one in my house (frequently), and I'm always willing to learn more. I've got about 80 devices connected to my ISY. The speaker for the driveway alarm can monitor four separate motion detectors. An LED behind each of those four zones lights up when the respective motion detector gets triggered. I'm sure I could solder a wire inline with the LED for the one zone I monitor. I just need to find the right transistor and relay. Thanks again!
epfunke Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 you would not connect inline with the led, but across the led and current limiting resistor. The led will have a series resistor to limit the current so if you can find the led and its associated resistor, try testing from the other side of this resistor to ground with a voltmeter and see what you get when the led is on vs off. if you find something like 5 or 9 or 12?? volts when on and 0 when off. then there a number of easy to use relay modules on amazon that will give you the contact closure
RTG Posted October 2, 2020 Author Posted October 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, epfunke said: you would not connect inline with the led, but across the led and current limiting resistor. The led will have a series resistor to limit the current so if you can find the led and its associated resistor, try testing from the other side of this resistor to ground with a voltmeter and see what you get when the led is on vs off. if you find something like 5 or 9 or 12?? volts when on and 0 when off. then there a number of easy to use relay modules on amazon that will give you the contact closure Got it! That makes perfect sense. I would then simply connect to the front side of the resistor with the correct relay. I think I can handle that. We are headed out of town for a week (for the first time in 2020). So, it will be a week before I can get to it, but I'll let you know how it goes. BTW, I saw your occupation. I'm a huge Broadway fan. I hope you all get back to some sense of normalcy soon. Thanks again.
epfunke Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks. Let me know what you find when you open it. if you use just a relay, dont forget a reverse diode across the coil. I have seen little modules that have a little driver transistor, etc on a pcb with screw terminal Have a good trip 1
Brian H Posted October 2, 2020 Posted October 2, 2020 Let us know how it goes. As pointed out. The detector you linked to was a Voltage Detector.
RTG Posted October 5, 2020 Author Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) We now aren't leaving for trip until tomorrow morning, and I couldn't wait any longer to dig into this thing. So, I took the speaker apart and found the following (picture attached): Each of the four LED lights pulse on and off six times (about once every second) when its respective alarm zone is triggered. I traced each LED to its power source in front of its respective resistor. I marked the sources as #1 - #4 in the picture. On my analog multimeter they pulse between zero and 6 volts when the zone is triggered, but I think it's less than 6V because my multimeter registers 2V on a 1.5V, AA battery. So, the LED power source probably pulses closer to 5V before it gets to the resistor. I now have three challenges: I need to find the right relay that will close the contact so my Insteon I/O Linc sensor can read it. I need to figure out how to deal with the fact that the power source pulses six times, rather than one long power draw. Is that going to cause problems with my I/O Linc? I guess I can insert a "wait" command somewhere in the program and have it wait 6 seconds after receiving a signal from the I/O Linc before it does anything. I need to figure out how in the world I am going to solder wires to this pcb. I put a small paper clip in the picture to give it scale. I don't think I can make a dot of solder that small and keep it from crossing over to another connection. So once again I appeal to the superior talent in this thread for advice. Thanks for helping me on this journey. I like learning new stuff! Edited October 6, 2020 by RTG
Michel Kohanim Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 @RTG, You are awesome!!! With kind regards, Michel
hart2hart Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 We now aren't leaving for trip until tomorrow morning, and I couldn't wait any longer to dig into this thing. So, I took the speaker apart and found the following (picture attached): Each of the four LED lights pulse on and off six times (about once every second) when its respective alarm zone is triggered. I traced each LED to its power source in front of its respective resistor. I marked the sources as #1 - #4 in the picture. On my analog multimeter they pulse between zero and 6 volts when the zone is triggered, but I think it's less than 6V because my multimeter registers 2V on a 1.5V, AA battery. So, the LED power source probably pulses closer to 5V before it gets to the resistor. I now have three challenges: I need to find the right relay that will close the contact so my Insteon I/O Linc sensor can read it. I need to figure out how to deal with the fact that the power source pulses six times, rather than one long power draw. Is that going to cause problems with my I/O Linc? I guess I can insert a "wait" command somewhere in the program and have it wait 6 seconds after receiving a signal from the I/O Linc before it does anything. I need to figure out how in the world I am going to solder wires to this pcb. I put a small paper clip in the picture to give it scale. I don't think I can make a dot of solder that small and keep it from crossing over to another connection. So once again I appeal to the superior talent in this thread for advice. Thanks for helping me on this journey. I like learning new stuff!For this type connection, get very fine gauge stranded wire. Put solder on the end of the wire with a tiny bit extra near the end. Place wire tip at the point on PCB and then heat wire and solder point at same time to fuse them together. You don’t have to put solder direct to board.
Brian H Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) The LED may have a resistor in series with it to limit the current through the LED to a safe level. How it is connected and where you try a relay may be determined by which side of the resistor you use or if it will not effect how bright the LED flashes. I would also not use a relay that had too high a coil current needed to operate it. Maybe a small electronic assembly. That drives a relay and triggered by a application of a voltage to its control input. Edited October 6, 2020 by Brian H
garybixler Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 I would be concerned using a relay directly connected to the circuit without having a fly back diode especially with micro circuits.
epfunke Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 Quote you can also use one of these small relay boards to buffer the sensors output and provide the contact closure for the iolinc https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Channel-optocoupler-Support-Trigger/dp/B00LW15A4W/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=low+voltage+relay&qid=1602009072&sr=8-6 from what I can see from the picture, the one side of the LED appears to be grounded. and the other side jumps to the other side of the PCB, can you look at the other side of the board and follow that trace? you may find the series resistor on the other side of the board, maybe send another pic of the other side? and indicate where that led is on the other side so one can follow the trace. I would recommend soldering at the resistor it is more forgiving of heat than that tiny surface mount led 1
epfunke Posted October 6, 2020 Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) now that I zoom in it looks like you traced that out and R63 is the resistor for that LED. Just solder to R14 on the side closest to the chip and you should be all set Edited October 6, 2020 by epfunke
RTG Posted October 7, 2020 Author Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 2:47 PM, epfunke said: now that I zoom in it looks like you traced that out and R63 is the resistor for that LED. Just solder to R14 on the side closest to the chip and you should be all set That’s right. The numbers I wrote on the black chip are the power connections in front of the respective resistors for each LED (#s R63, R20, R14 and R10). I thought that would be the best place to solder wires. The ground (which I forgot to mark) is above the chip. I can easily solder a wire to that. we are in Savannah right now, but I’ll jump on this early next week when I get back. I’ll let you know how it goes.
RTG Posted October 12, 2020 Author Posted October 12, 2020 Success! (At lest in the lab). My soldering job is horrific, but I got it to work. Here's what I did: Ordered the relay @epfunke linked above. (Thanks for the tip!) Soldered a ground wire to the PCB ground and a power lead to the #1 pin on the chip in the pic above (which is the power for the #1 LED). On the relay I connected: the power lead to the pos. power terminal (DC+, or VCC, depending on your relay) the ground wire to the neg. terminal, and a jumper wire from the pos. terminal to the input terminal. This causes the relay to turn on when the speaker's LED pulses on, and off when the LED turns off (which it does once per second for six seconds when the alarm is tripped) Connected the relay's Normally On and Common terminals to the Ground and Sensor terminals on the I/O Linc. (Doesn't matter which is connected to which.) Now when the alarm is tripped the I/O Linc sensor pulses on, then off, six times. To deal with the pulse I programed a State Variable in the ISY to count the number of times the I/O Linc sensor turns on. I then wrote a test program If: $Driveway_LED_count >= 4 (I started with "6", but it didn't work right. When I reduced it to "4," it worked perfectly. Not sure why.) Then: Set 'Chandelier' On; Wait 10 seconds; Set 'Chandelier' Off; $Driveway_LED_count = 0 End result: When I trip the driveway alarm the LED pulses six times, my chandelier turns on, then turns off at appointed time, and the LED pulse count resets to zero. This is exactly what I wanted. If someone drives or walks down my driveway in the middle of the night, I want my landscape lighting to come on and stay on for about an hour, then turn back off. We live out in the country and deer walk through my front yard all the time. So I don't want an internal alarm going off. This will be enough to make sure people coming up to my house know they are on Candid Camera. Thanks to all of you for the help and advice. This was fun. 1
epfunke Posted October 12, 2020 Posted October 12, 2020 Glad you got it working, but would recommend a slightly different connection. I would connect the positive power terminal of the relay to an always on power source on your board, and the input connection, to the #1 led circuit. As you have it wired the led pin is supplying all the current for the relay, on not knowing the rating on that pin, it may fail eventually? the input terminal on the relay board will put essentially no load on that led pin. 2
RTG Posted October 13, 2020 Author Posted October 13, 2020 10 hours ago, epfunke said: Glad you got it working, but would recommend a slightly different connection. I would connect the positive power terminal of the relay to an always on power source on your board, and the input connection, to the #1 led circuit. As you have it wired the led pin is supplying all the current for the relay, on not knowing the rating on that pin, it may fail eventually? the input terminal on the relay board will put essentially no load on that led pin. Ah. I'm guessing that's what you and @garybixler meant earlier about installing a reverse diode. Got it, and I fixed it. I soldered one more wire (I'm getting better at it) to the incoming 5V power source on the PCB, then removed the jumper wire and moved the LED #1 wire over to the input terminal on the relay. It works perfect. I moved the whole setup to the garage and edited the test program to run the landscape lighting instead of my test chandelier. It works great. All I need to do now is mount the solar motion detector on a post at the end of the driveway and I'm done. You guys are great. Thanks again for the help!
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