dtfastbear Posted November 11, 2020 Posted November 11, 2020 Sorry for the lack of details, here, but the previous home owner installed the entire UD/Insteon system, so I'm not super familiar with it. I've been using the "Devices" web page for years to turn on and off several lights that don't have any physical switches. All of a sudden, these lights have become very unresponsive to commands from the web interface. However, the connection is not totally lost. If I hit the button to turn on a light 50, 75 or 100 times, it will EVENTUALLY turn on or off. I've unplugged, plugged in the only UD "box" I could find. Any ideas at all where to start in troubleshooting or fixing the issue? Thanks!
gviliunas Posted November 11, 2020 Posted November 11, 2020 You need to split the problem to determine if it is caused by an Insteon device or by a change to your home environment. If the problem affects only 1 device, I would try to move your ISY and PLM to an outlet on the same circuit as the device. If the device now works, I would look first for any changes to your environment. Has something new been plugged-in? If the device doesn't work, I'd suspect the device. If it affects all of your devices and if the PLM is more than 2 years old, I'd suspect the PLM. (Search on this forum for" Repair of 2413SPLM When the Power Supply Fails." You can also try Restoring the PLM. Be sure NOT to do a "Remove PLM" or "Replace PLM" in your troubleshooting. If the problem still exists, Open the Event Viewer, set this to Level 3, and try to turn lights on and off a few times. Copy the results in your response. 2
dtfastbear Posted November 11, 2020 Author Posted November 11, 2020 @gviliunasThanks for the reply! This definitely affects more than one device, but the only ones I've tested so far are in the same part of my home so they could be on the same circuit. You've given me some good leads to follow, so I'll get on that. Really appreciate the direction...
DennisC Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 Here is a link to the Insteon troubleshooting guide in the Wiki: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Help#INSTEON
dtfastbear Posted November 12, 2020 Author Posted November 12, 2020 7 hours ago, DennisC said: Here is a link to the Insteon troubleshooting guide in the Wiki: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Troubleshooting_Help#INSTEON Thanks for the link. I haven't had a chance to do much more troubleshooting yet, but I was able to get my admin interface up. When I did open that, I got a series of these messages: I'm not yet sure if it is EVERY device, or just those in this part of the house. I have to do a little more experimentation. For what it's worth, I have an ISY99i and a 2412S PLM. These are both at LEAST 6 years old (how long I've owned this house). The PLM does have power, at least the little light is on. And, like I said in the original post, if I click on Fast On or Off like 50-60 times, I can still get a device to react. I can't think of any changes - things plugged in, etc. - that would have led to this, but I'll walk around and look at every single outlet and see what I find.
dtfastbear Posted November 12, 2020 Author Posted November 12, 2020 FOUND IT! We recently moved a networked printer from upstairs to downstairs - and it is plugged into the outlet that is closest to the electrical panel. I've tested multiple times now - unplug the printer and everything works. Plug the printer in and everything mostly stops working. Is moving this printer to another circuit the only reliable solution? Or is there the ability to filter this (thought I read something about that.) Thanks, everyone, for pointing me in the right direction. I wouldn't have suspected that just plugging in a normal appliance like that could make such a difference. 1
larryllix Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, dtfastbear said: FOUND IT! We recently moved a networked printer from upstairs to downstairs - and it is plugged into the outlet that is closest to the electrical panel. I've tested multiple times now - unplug the printer and everything works. Plug the printer in and everything mostly stops working. Is moving this printer to another circuit the only reliable solution? Or is there the ability to filter this (thought I read something about that.) Thanks, everyone, for pointing me in the right direction. I wouldn't have suspected that just plugging in a normal appliance like that could make such a difference. They can natively inject noise on the power line from their switching power supply, or like Insteon devices, have power supply capacitors wear out that stop noise from backing up into the power grid. A simple plug-in Insteon FilterLinc should cure that one. There is also the possibility that certain combinations of appliances and lengths of copper can cause small noises to resonate in your wiring making them bigger noises.
mwester Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 You'll need one (or several dozen) FilterLincs. I started with a couple of them, which lessened my problems with Insteon enough to make me order a few more... fast-forward, and my house is littered with FilterLincs. They're everywhere, because everything anymore has a switching power-supply that puts noise on the electrical lines. Hope you can get away with just one or two of them... 1
xlurkr Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 Maybe. I have 30+ Insteon devices, two printers (laser and inkjet), lots of chargers plugged into outlets, zero filterlincs, and close to 100% Insteon signaling success. larrylix seems to have some logical advice to follow next. -Tom 1
Brian H Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 If the networked printer is a Laser type. Check its current draw. I have seen some indications some draw heavy current when warming up. A FilterLinc has a 10 amp fuse in it. If the fuse blows the filtered outlet will be dead but the pass through unfiltered output on the front will still be functioning.
dtfastbear Posted November 13, 2020 Author Posted November 13, 2020 The printer (it is a laser printer) was plugged into a heavy extension cord (Covid work-from-home office setup!) I simply moved the printer and plugged it directly into the same outlet that the extension cord is plugged into, and everything seems to be working just fine. It would appear that @larryllixwas onto something about how just the combination of appliances and the length of copper could come into play. Thanks to everyone who responded. This was a much easier fix than I anticipated, and now I know a little more about the home automation I acquired along with my house. Cheers.
oberkc Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 Even if an extension cord solved the problem for now, I would still get a filter. This printer is now a known problem for insteon, and it has been my experience that interference can be cumulative. You don't want the occasion of plugging a charger into a wall outlet somewhere causing problems because your communication environment is marginal (due to a printer). I assume, also that you have computer/router/switch/UPS/etc types of devices at your house. Plug them all, along with the printer, into the filterlinc, if practical. 2
larryllix Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) As with @oberkc above, two years from now, you will forget about this and plug the printer back in somewhere, driving yourself crazy why this has started happening again. When you find it again after a week of sleuthing, you will want to slash your wrists. (exagg) Edited November 13, 2020 by larryllix
dtfastbear Posted November 13, 2020 Author Posted November 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, larryllix said: As with @oberkc above, two years from now, you will forget about this and plug the printer back in somewhere, driving yourself crazy why this has started happening again. When you find it again after a week of sleuthing, you will want to slash your wrists. (exagg) LOL - Filterlincs ordered.
ELA Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Pay attention to what Brian has pointed out about current draw. Laser jets do demand large current spikes while printing. They are known for dimming the lights on the same circuit when actively printing. My Laser Jet draws 10A peaks when printing. The duration of the peak is not likely long enough to blow the fuse ( at 10A) but mine is just one example. Others could have even higher peaks. My Laser Jet is also a pretty significant signal sucker ( internal noise suppression caps). Mine is located on a circuit without Insteon devices, and far away from the service, and thus I have not had to filter it. As mwester pointed out the safe bet is lots of filterlincs if in doubt about any electronic device.
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