Insteon being discontinued?

[Tim McDermott]

For those considering a change, EVVR Pad S debuted at the 2022 CES. Claiming compatibility with Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, it sounds interesting.  Check it out at https://evvr.io/products/evvr-pad-s/?utm_source=GadgetFlow&utm_medium=GadgetFlow&utm_campaign=GadgetFlow

[upstatemike]

Yes! They had me at embedded linear resonant actuator.

[larryllix]

36 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Yes! They had me at embedded linear resonant actuator.

Is that similar to a "flux capacitor"?

Sounds nice but it seems so "yesterday" when most are using vocal controls for unlimited operations, devices, colours, etc.. etc.. now.

This would have taken the crowd by storm half a decade ago. Looks like a nice unit if you still have legs to walk across the room every time you want to make something happen.

"Honey! Can you get my remote. It's going to start!"
     ..."Why don't you get it yourself? Who was your slave last year?"

"Oooops! It already started!"

[apostolakisl]

For what its worth, I use a lot of Ubiquiti Unifi stuff.  And they are also covered with "sold out" signs.

[ase]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

For what its worth, I use a lot of Ubiquiti Unifi stuff.  And they are also covered with "sold out" signs.

It's everything from everyone right now. The chip fabs are clogged up with orders for chips from OEM manufacturers. People forget the same fabs that are used to make chips for devices like the ones we use here also make chips for auto makers, switches, routers, cellular equipment and so on.

We have cable companies upgrading to docsis 3.1, fiber providers pushing up speeds globally, 5g deployments going up. 

We have a "shortage" of chips for many of the devices used in home automation because, the companies involved just simply do not buy enough bulk to take priority over others. 

This is why I don't buy into the Insteon is dead hype. They are owned by a capital management firm. These types of firms are kinda like house flippers, they find a way to profit. It may be rebranding, parting out a company, but either way the monetize the company.

I think they are being rebranded, and are putting the Nokia brand first. 

I am seeing outs across the spectrum of products I buy and many of the products I get in hand were manufactured before this problem began. We are just starting to see the stockpiles run out.

[larryllix]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:42 PM, Tim McDermott said:

For those considering a change, EVVR Pad S debuted at the 2022 CES. Claiming compatibility with Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, it sounds interesting.  Check it out at https://evvr.io/products/evvr-pad-s/?utm_source=GadgetFlow&utm_medium=GadgetFlow&utm_campaign=GadgetFlow

Back to the thread topic...

Any prices revealed at this point?

[lilyoyo1]

5 hours ago, ase said:

It's everything from everyone right now. The chip fabs are clogged up with orders for chips from OEM manufacturers. People forget the same fabs that are used to make chips for devices like the ones we use here also make chips for auto makers, switches, routers, cellular equipment and so on.

We have cable companies upgrading to docsis 3.1, fiber providers pushing up speeds globally, 5g deployments going up. 

We have a "shortage" of chips for many of the devices used in home automation because, the companies involved just simply do not buy enough bulk to take priority over others. 

This is why I don't buy into the Insteon is dead hype. They are owned by a capital management firm. These types of firms are kinda like house flippers, they find a way to profit. It may be rebranding, parting out a company, but either way the monetize the company.

I think they are being rebranded, and are putting the Nokia brand first. 

I am seeing outs across the spectrum of products I buy and many of the products I get in hand were manufactured before this problem began. We are just starting to see the stockpiles run out.

This is what I said early on. Most here only buy a few things so they don't truly see what's happening around them. Since I'm constantly doing houses with different components, I've learned first hand how bad things are.

My garage is full of Ubiquiti equipment, speakers, cameras, etc. for jobs 8 months out because I'm buying as soon as they get stock to ensure I have what I need

[upstatemike]

Ubiquity reminds me of Insteon sometimes with some of the business decisions they make designed to piss off their customers. From non-standard POE in the early days to changing policies around cloud keys to making it impossible to set up a "local" network without a cloud connection (I think they have since fixed that?)... It makes me wonder: Is Ubiquity being discontinued?

[carealtor]

3 hours ago, upstatemike said:

 Is Ubiquity being discontinued?

Well, since I use it, almost certainly Yes.

[Tim McDermott]

Don't discard your dead PLMs! You can recover their residual value either by selling them as-is, repairing them yourself or having them repaired. As I've previously mentioned, I recently received a repair kit containing the replacement capacitors that are the frequent cause of failure and I just came across a seller on eBay offering a flat-rate repair for $50. shipping inclusive.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insteon-PowerLinc-Modem-PLM-Repair-Service-/284615131082?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357

While I can't personally speak to the quality of the service, but with used serial PLMs selling in excess of $200. I think it's well worth considering. 

[Tim McDermott]

For those considering Zigbee, this is a fairly definitive rundown on available wall switches:

https://www.findthisbest.com/best-electrical-light-switches/zigbee

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, Tim McDermott said:

For those considering Zigbee, this is a fairly definitive rundown on available wall switches:

https://www.findthisbest.com/best-electrical-light-switches/zigbee

Nice! Any of these systems / hubs compatible with each other or are they all "protocol islands" still?

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, Tim McDermott said:

For those considering Zigbee, this is a fairly definitive rundown on available wall switches:

https://www.findthisbest.com/best-electrical-light-switches/zigbee

That is a good summary. It kind of highlights for me some of the gaps between Z-Wave and Zigbee that seem like should be easy to address but for some reason never have been yet. For me these include:

-How do you do associations between Zigbee switches to create virtual 3-way configurations without depending on the cloud? 

-Are there any keypads to compliment the switches? Zigbee keypads seem kind of rare.

- None of the switches seem to have many options for controlling LED indicators or backlighting the way you can with Z-Wave.

-The Nue switch will pair with a Philips Hue hub but it is not clear if all the switches can. I guess you need to depend on another local hub like Hubitat to provide good interoperability across brands.

- Do any of these switches support multi-tap features? Do they all report local operation back to the hub? Can they participate in scenes?

Maybe as Matter support is added to basic Zigbee devices we will see the gap between Z-Wave and Zigbee switch features close to the point where they compete more directly.

[Tim McDermott]

And for those considering Z-Wave, here's a pretty good primer:

https://linkdhome.com/articles/What-is-z-wave

[upstatemike]

Interesting chart but it caused me to wonder about something. Most of the protocols compared are mesh protocols. Mesh protocols work best if you build them out with a lot of devices so it is best to pick one mesh protocol and do everything you can with it. But the article suggests you should plan to mix multiple protocols to cover all of your needs. But this will weaken the mesh of each protocol as you are no longer building any of them out with the maximum number of devices so... What is the real message here?

[lilyoyo1]

44 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Interesting chart but it caused me to wonder about something. Most of the protocols compared are mesh protocols. Mesh protocols work best if you build them out with a lot of devices so it is best to pick one mesh protocol and do everything you can with it. But the article suggests you should plan to mix multiple protocols to cover all of your needs. But this will weaken the mesh of each protocol as you are no longer building any of them out with the maximum number of devices so... What is the real message here?

You dont need a maximum amount of devices to build out a mesh system. You need a minimum number (which varies) to build a mesh system. In a perfect world, you want just enough devices for devices to reach the controller and also have a couple of more to allow the self healing properties of zwave to protect you just in case of failure for whatever reason.

Imagine standing on 1 corner of a quiet neighborhood and needing to get a message to the other corner 100 feet away. Do you need 50 people between you and them or will 5 evenly spaced apart suffice? Sure, you can have more just in case it gets noisy or someone walks off but in general the 5 you have will be enough. Mesh networks are similar in operation.

Thats what a person should strive for. Once they have solid communication, pursuing other technologies to fill in gaps makes for a more complete system. A whole house full of 1 mesh system isn't bad but ultimately most of the devices will go unused in regards to mesh purposes

[Tim McDermott]

Crazy times ahead. With used 2477Ds selling for over $150,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insteon-SwitchLinc-Dimmer-Switch-2477D-White-Remote-Control-Dual-Band-Dimmer-/203802515276?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

I'm almost tempted to liquidate my entire Insteon system and replacement inventory and start over! Almost.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Tim McDermott said:

Crazy times ahead. With used 2477Ds selling for over $150,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insteon-SwitchLinc-Dimmer-Switch-2477D-White-Remote-Control-Dual-Band-Dimmer-/203802515276?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

I'm almost tempted to liquidate my entire Insteon system and replacement inventory and start over! Almost.

Part of the problem is everyone will be flooding ebay with stuff so the prices won't jump like they did previously. There's multiple plms on there now and none are at 200 unlike previous times

[upstatemike]

My strategy is to wait for everyone to panic and sell off their Insteon stuff all at once. With a ton available at one time I will pick up whatever I need for pennies on the dollar to give me spares for at least 10 years at which point Matter will be depracated and everyone will be moving to the new quantum entanglement protocols. That's the point where I will finally consider making a platform change. 

[SJTINCA]

I will begin this by letting everyone know I am not a home automation expert. I purchased Insteon products 9 years ago to reduce the number of traditional wall switches/dimmers in a family room addition with 8 ceiling can lights for art works, a couple of wall sconces and two overhead hanging lights. The 8 button dimmer keypad controlling In-Line Link dimmer modules (currently 2475DA1) allowed me to eliminate a lot of switch clutter on the walls. When we built this addition, I had it wired specifically for these devices so the loss of replacements puts me in a real bind.

Does anyone in this forum know of a direct replacement for the 2475DA1 dimmer modules or have any suggestions on how to overcome the loss of Insteon products. I'm currently trying to revive some failed modules by replacing the capacitors...a long shot. (kicking myself for not stocking up on replacement devices!)

[Tim McDermott]

Although I can't help with your request for a direct replacement, perhaps I can help with the lack of backup devices: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insteon-Inline-In-Wall-Dimmer-2475DA1-/175163516420?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Given its relative obscurity, maybe the current $20. bid won't get too out of hand. Personally, after trying to bid on a couple of 2477Ds, I've decided to wait until I actually need a replacement in hopes of more reasonable prices once the panic wanes.

[hart2hart]

I will begin this by letting everyone know I am not a home automation expert. I purchased Insteon products 9 years ago to reduce the number of traditional wall switches/dimmers in a family room addition with 8 ceiling can lights for art works, a couple of wall sconces and two overhead hanging lights. The 8 button dimmer keypad controlling In-Line Link dimmer modules (currently 2475DA1) allowed me to eliminate a lot of switch clutter on the walls. When we built this addition, I had it wired specifically for these devices so the loss of replacements puts me in a real bind.
Does anyone in this forum know of a direct replacement for the 2475DA1 dimmer modules or have any suggestions on how to overcome the loss of Insteon products. I'm currently trying to revive some failed modules by replacing the capacitors...a long shot. (kicking myself for not stocking up on replacement devices!)

You can also try to locate standard dimmers and remove the switch pad.

[SJTINCA]

1 hour ago, Tim McDermott said:

Although I can't help with your request for a direct replacement, perhaps I can help with the lack of backup devices: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Insteon-Inline-In-Wall-Dimmer-2475DA1-/175163516420?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Given its relative obscurity, maybe the current $20. bid won't get too out of hand. Personally, after trying to bid on a couple of 2477Ds, I've decided to wait until I actually need a replacement in hopes of more reasonable prices once the panic wanes.

Thanks Tim...already have that one on the watchlist! ? I keep looking but suspect there are plenty of folks out there doing what we are doing...scrambling 

[SJTINCA]

24 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

You can also try to locate standard dimmers and remove the switch pad.

Thank you hart2hart but the problem with that is there is no direct wiring to all the lights...power line comms and room was designed with the desire to illuminate different lights at various levels. That was the beauty of using Insteon...that switch pad reduced ALOT of clutter! (and wiring)

[hart2hart]

Thank you hart2hart but the problem with that is there is no direct wiring to all the lights...power line comms and room was designed with the desire to illuminate different lights at various levels. That was the beauty of using Insteon...that switch pad reduced ALOT of clutter! (and wiring)

Is the keypadlinc bad or the in line wall dimmer that is hidden? Unless I’m not understanding, an inline dimmer is essentially a wall dimmer without the paddle. You can remove the paddle if space required.

Not saying you’ll find wall dimmers either but just raises the odds. Again, sorry if I’m not understanding.