Z-wave switch status not updating in Admin Console

[abrayshaw]

A question from an ISY994i newbie: I have successfully added 2 Leviton DZ6HD dimmers to the ISY, and have renamed them ("Foyer lights" and "Hall lights"). When I select the switch (Foyer lights) on the Main tab of the Admin Console tab, the status is shown as Off. I can control the lights using the buttons along the bottom of the device's status screen, so I know the ISY can control the switch, and when I do the Status reflects the switch's status (no longer shows Off). BUT, if I manually turn the light on by pressing the switch button, the Status display doesn't change. If the switch is turned on via a program (then statement: "Set 'Z-wave devices/Switches/First floor/Foyer lights' On) the light turns on AND the Status display shows the light is now on.

To put it another way, manual switch button presses don't seem to be reported to the ISY. The ISY doesn't "know" if the light is on or off.

I'd like to be able to have a program detect if the light has been turned on manually (i.e. not by another program) but see no way to do that if the ISY can't tell what the status is.

Hope this makes sense, and hope someone can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks

[asbril]

3 hours ago, abrayshaw said:

A question from an ISY994i newbie: I have successfully added 2 Leviton DZ6HD dimmers to the ISY, and have renamed them ("Foyer lights" and "Hall lights"). When I select the switch (Foyer lights) on the Main tab of the Admin Console tab, the status is shown as Off. I can control the lights using the buttons along the bottom of the device's status screen, so I know the ISY can control the switch, and when I do the Status reflects the switch's status (no longer shows Off). BUT, if I manually turn the light on by pressing the switch button, the Status display doesn't change. If the switch is turned on via a program (then statement: "Set 'Z-wave devices/Switches/First floor/Foyer lights' On) the light turns on AND the Status display shows the light is now on.

To put it another way, manual switch button presses don't seem to be reported to the ISY. The ISY doesn't "know" if the light is on or off.

I'd like to be able to have a program detect if the light has been turned on manually (i.e. not by another program) but see no way to do that if the ISY can't tell what the status is.

Hope this makes sense, and hope someone can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks

I wonder whether your switches are not Zwave PLUS. Older (pre Plus) switches, in most if not all cases, do not have status reporting.   That was because of a patent that expired in 2016

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, abrayshaw said:

A question from an ISY994i newbie: I have successfully added 2 Leviton DZ6HD dimmers to the ISY, and have renamed them ("Foyer lights" and "Hall lights"). When I select the switch (Foyer lights) on the Main tab of the Admin Console tab, the status is shown as Off. I can control the lights using the buttons along the bottom of the device's status screen, so I know the ISY can control the switch, and when I do the Status reflects the switch's status (no longer shows Off). BUT, if I manually turn the light on by pressing the switch button, the Status display doesn't change. If the switch is turned on via a program (then statement: "Set 'Z-wave devices/Switches/First floor/Foyer lights' On) the light turns on AND the Status display shows the light is now on.

To put it another way, manual switch button presses don't seem to be reported to the ISY. The ISY doesn't "know" if the light is on or off.

I'd like to be able to have a program detect if the light has been turned on manually (i.e. not by another program) but see no way to do that if the ISY can't tell what the status is.

Hope this makes sense, and hope someone can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks

What's your firmware and UI

[oberkc]

I, too, have had a difficult time recently with Z-wave.  It got worse when I upgraded to software version 5.2, along with replacing z-wave card with newer version.  Switches that used to update status no longer did so.  In some cases, I could partly resolve the problems by removing the z-wave device, resetting it, and adding it back.  In one case, I replaced it with a new one.  In the end, I got a response from the company that told us that these problems were going to be resolved in a software update.

This experience would only be relevant to you if you are on 5.2 firmware.  

[ldb]

My effort to stay current with ISY and Z-wave technology has resulted in diminished capability.  I started my ISY life with a number of Leviton Vizia rf+ devices including VRMX1 dimmer switches.  These switches reported manual operation to ISY and met all of my programming needs.  (running v. 4.x.x) 

 

The latest Leviton Z-wave dimmer switch is DZ6HD and is Z-wave Plus according to Leviton.  I installed one of these recently and discovered that ISY does not recognize its manual operation.  (running v. 5.0.16)  Some forum research enlightened me to the "hail" function and I was able to query it with a program to update its status on ISY.  Clunky but it works.

 

Yesterday I installed the new Z-wave 500 dongle and updated to v. 5.3.0.  Now none of my old Vizia switches report manual operation status.  I found a number of choices in the "Z-wave options" menu but nothing seems to enable manual reporting.  I have added all Leviton switches to the hail program mentioned above and it does work but is very slow to respond.

 

I originally assumed this shortcoming to be a Leviton issue but it now appears to be a UD issue.

[asbril]

4 minutes ago, ldb said:

My effort to stay current with ISY and Z-wave technology has resulted in diminished capability.  I started my ISY life with a number of Leviton Vizia rf+ devices including VRMX1 dimmer switches.  These switches reported manual operation to ISY and met all of my programming needs.  (running v. 4.x.x) 

 

The latest Leviton Z-wave dimmer switch is DZ6HD and is Z-wave Plus according to Leviton.  I installed one of these recently and discovered that ISY does not recognize its manual operation.  (running v. 5.0.16)  Some forum research enlightened me to the "hail" function and I was able to query it with a program to update its status on ISY.  Clunky but it works.

 

Yesterday I installed the new Z-wave 500 dongle and updated to v. 5.3.0.  Now none of my old Vizia switches report manual operation status.  I found a number of choices in the "Z-wave options" menu but nothing seems to enable manual reporting.  I have added all Leviton switches to the hail program mentioned above and it does work but is very slow to respond.

 

I originally assumed this shortcoming to be a Leviton issue but it now appears to be a UD issue.

I am not sure what causes your issues and possibly these may be resolved by the upcoming firmware upgrade. However, in the meantime, try the Zwave  "Update Neighbors"  to see if that helps.

If you allow me, may I kindly suggest that you remove your  "     Support Constitutional Government          "  from your signature, This forum thrives by avoiding politics and btw  I am sure that we all support constitutional government,

[oberkc]

4 hours ago, ldb said:

I originally assumed this shortcoming to be a Leviton issue but it now appears to be a UD issue.

I had very similar experience...updated board, updated firmware.  Switches that once reported status no longer do so.  It is, indeed, my understanding that this is a UD issue and that there is a fix coming.

 

[abrayshaw]

Thanks for all the chatter regarding my question. In response to asbril's post, these Leviton switches were just recently purchased, and are labeled "ZWave Plus". Interesting to hear even older switches that once did respond to manual operation no longer do. That does seem to me like it could be a UD issue, and not the switches.

I'm very new to the ISY, so have a recently purchased ISY994i with firmware v.5.3.0 and UI of Insteon_UD994 v.5.3.0.

I did find a tip regarding writing a program to detect a Hail and then doing a query. That causes the ISY to now detect the status correctly (i.e. when the light is on by manual operation the ISY no longer shows "Off") but there still seems to be no way to determine if the switch was turned manually or by a program. Guess I'll need to wait to see if a firmware update from UD addresses this.

[oberkc]

Even if your primary device is not showing status change, it may be worth trying something...

For the zwave device in question, right-click>>z-wave>>>add/refresh button press node.  This might add an additional node for that device that can be used in programs to trigger things.  Give it a shot.

 

[abrayshaw]

Thanks, oberkc. Tried that to no avail, but was worth a shot.

Thanks

[pmarcos]

I recently swapped out an Insteon keypadlinc switch with a Leviton Z-Wave switch. My ISY can see the Leviton switch and has no trouble controlling it or changing it's on level via a program.  Like the OP, I don't see the status in the Admin Console update when the switch is manually turned on or off, nor do I seem to see any "on" or "off" events.  I do see a "hail" event when it's switched on or off, but I was under the impression that I should be able to see on/off events, which I want to use as triggers for programs.  

I had been running v5.0.16 but I just upgraded to v5.3.0 and don't see any change in behavior.  Am I misunderstanding how a Z-wave switch should behave, or is it not behaving correctly?  

[lilyoyo1]

11 hours ago, pmarcos said:

I recently swapped out an Insteon keypadlinc switch with a Leviton Z-Wave switch. My ISY can see the Leviton switch and has no trouble controlling it or changing it's on level via a program.  Like the OP, I don't see the status in the Admin Console update when the switch is manually turned on or off, nor do I seem to see any "on" or "off" events.  I do see a "hail" event when it's switched on or off, but I was under the impression that I should be able to see on/off events, which I want to use as triggers for programs.  

I had been running v5.0.16 but I just upgraded to v5.3.0 and don't see any change in behavior.  Am I misunderstanding how a Z-wave switch should behave, or is it not behaving correctly?  

They depends on your device. Since you've given no information about it we can only assume when we answer. 

If it's not a zwave plus device then your switch probably does not support instant status and requires polling. I would also clear Java cache to ensure both your UI and firmware match

Edited January 6, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[pmarcos]

The specific switch is a Leviton DZ6HD which is a Z-Wave Plus device (at least, it says so on the box).  So assuming that's correct, what events should I expect to see when the switch is turned on and off?  I have very little experience with Z-Wave devices, the only one I have on my network today is a motion sensor, which works fine.  

My UI and firmware match, both v5.3.0.  I had cleared my Java cache after doing the firmware upgrade.  

[jca001]

@pmarcos It may be labeled / listed as Z-Wave Plus, but could have been manufactured before the patent expired that allowed all manufactures to provide instant status update. The work around the patent was to have the device send a hail when the status changed and then the controller could query the device to get the current status.

 

So you have to create a program where the IF checks for the hail and when triggered, the THEN should do a query of the device.

 

The status of the device in ISY will be delayed by a small amount.

 

[asbril]

13 hours ago, pmarcos said:

I recently swapped out an Insteon keypadlinc switch with a Leviton Z-Wave switch. My ISY can see the Leviton switch and has no trouble controlling it or changing it's on level via a program.  Like the OP, I don't see the status in the Admin Console update when the switch is manually turned on or off, nor do I seem to see any "on" or "off" events.  I do see a "hail" event when it's switched on or off, but I was under the impression that I should be able to see on/off events, which I want to use as triggers for programs.  

I had been running v5.0.16 but I just upgraded to v5.3.0 and don't see any change in behavior.  Am I misunderstanding how a Z-wave switch should behave, or is it not behaving correctly?  

I noticed online that this is a Zwave Plus switch so it should be reporting the status to your ISY. I have no idea why it does not, especially as the switch responds to ISY commands. If this would happen in my setup, then I would first try "update neighbors" and if that does not work, then I would exclude the switch and then include again. Let us know how the various options work for you.

[pmarcos]

2 minutes ago, asbril said:

If this would happen in my setup, then I would first try "update neighbors" and if that does not work, then I would exclude the switch and then include again. Let us know how the various options work for you.

I've seen a couple mentions of "update neighbors".  How do I do that?  I don't see anything with that terminology in the admin console.  Is that the same as Z-Wave -> Synchronize Nodes?  If so, I already tried that and that didn't seem to help.  

I'll so the exclude and include at some point when I have time.  My suspicion is that @jca001 may be right and the switch is simply older than the box.  I'll also fiddle with responding to the hail command, which likely could get me where I want to be.  

[asbril]

4 minutes ago, pmarcos said:

I've seen a couple mentions of "update neighbors".  How do I do that?  I don't see anything with that terminology in the admin console.  Is that the same as Z-Wave -> Synchronize Nodes?  If so, I already tried that and that didn't seem to help.  

I'll so the exclude and include at some point when I have time.  My suspicion is that @jca001 may be right and the switch is simply older than the box.  I'll also fiddle with responding to the hail command, which likely could get me where I want to be.  

Right click on the device and then click on "Zwave".  Then you will see "Update Neighbor" at the top.

Edited January 6, 2021 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

That particular switch is zwave plus but uses hail (unless leviton released it with updated firmware). I believe UDI pushed an update so the Isy worked with hail but I may be mistaken. If not, you'll have to poll the device to get status via programs. Hopefully they can chime in and let you know. @Michel Kohanim

[lilyoyo1]

Just in case I'm wrong, you could try removing the device, factory reset the device and then re-adding it. If that doesn't work, then it is using hail. Good luck, welcome to the world of zwave

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, pmarcos said:

Leviton DZ6HD

That device does not support Instant Status it uses "hail"  Verified from the z-wave products DB.

https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1910/embedpics

 

[pmarcos]

11 minutes ago, simplextech said:

That device does not support Instant Status it uses "hail"  Verified from the z-wave products DB.

Oh, that's SUPER helpful, thank you for that link!  I'll be sure to consult this for future z-wave purchases!  

I'll dig into that site in more detail when I have time to, but in the meantime, what command class would I be interested in if I wanted a switch that supported instant status?  Is that part of the "Basic" command set (which I see on a Honeywell switch I was also considering).  

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, pmarcos said:

Oh, that's SUPER helpful, thank you for that link!  I'll be sure to consult this for future z-wave purchases!  

I'll dig into that site in more detail when I have time to, but in the meantime, what command class would I be interested in if I wanted a switch that supported instant status?  Is that part of the "Basic" command set (which I see on a Honeywell switch I was also considering).  

Welcome.

The newer Jasco (GE, Honeywell) switches/dimmers support instant status through Basic and Report CC's.  The HomeSeer switches/dimmers also support Instant status as well as the ZLink which are what HomeSeer OEM's for their switches.  There's a new line of Eaton switches and devices out as well which you may want to look into.  

Essentially if it's a newer Z-Wave Plus device you should be relatively safe.  If it's a somewhat older one that was in the middle period of changes you should verify.  If it does NOT support Instant then it will have "hail" defined so you'll know.

[asbril]

2 hours ago, simplextech said:

Welcome.

The newer Jasco (GE, Honeywell) switches/dimmers support instant status through Basic and Report CC's.  The HomeSeer switches/dimmers also support Instant status as well as the ZLink which are what HomeSeer OEM's for their switches.  There's a new line of Eaton switches and devices out as well which you may want to look into.  

Essentially if it's a newer Z-Wave Plus device you should be relatively safe.  If it's a somewhat older one that was in the middle period of changes you should verify.  If it does NOT support Instant then it will have "hail" defined so you'll know.

BTW, as a big user of Zwave (close to 90 in my home) I find  the GE/Jasco and Homeseer devices as most reliable. Some Inovelli devices have innovative functions that can be useful in some specific settings, but overal GE/Jasco and Homeseer are the better Zwave devices.

[JBanaszak]

I have the same or similar switches and use the “hail/poll” program described above. You should be able to find an example by searching “hail.” This is assuming you are running 5.x.x. There is a tiny delay but I have seen no real world impact.

Before updating to the 5 branch, I had a program that polled the devices every x minutes, which chews up some processing time if you choose a small x. I think I ultimately decided 5 minutes was good enough.

Hope this helps!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xlurkr]

@simplextech:

Do you know if ZLink has their own switches that are the same as the 200 series of HomeSeer?  The naming and feature set of the ZLinks look more like the HomeSeer 100 series.

-Tom