Oldie with newbie question

[xlurkr]

I have been making some changes lately to my ISY, and just noticed something.  I have several dimmers and KPLs that will turn on to the on level (let's say 75%) when first manually switched on, then go to 100% when switched on again.  Not sure if all Insteon dimmers do this, but probably.  Anyway, in the AC and UD Mobile and maybe all other interfaces (tbd) the status of the node remains at the initial on level after I do the second manual on actuation.  Is this by design?  Even weirder, if I dim it manually (up to 85% let's say), the status reflects that.  Then if I manually press on again, the light goes to 100%, but the status drops to 75%.

 

Sorry if this is well known or a defect that has been fixed.  I'm on 5.0.16B.  I was trying to create some scenes with levels of less than 100%, with lights I couldn't see from my location, and the difference between the status as reported by the AC and the actual light levels was messing me up.

 

-Tom

[oberkc]

I must admit that I have never noticed this either.  

I tapped one of my dimmers and it came to the local ON level, as expected and which was reflected in the admin console.  I tapped it again and it went to 100% as expected, but this was NOT reflected in the admin console.  I also get the same results as you if I dim things manually.

I don't know whether this is by design or whether we are both experiencing comm problems.

[lilyoyo1]

I can see this being normal behavior as this is built into the device itself. By default, if a switch is already on (dimmed), insteon will turn fully on. Ditto if you dim down. I've never paid attention to what happens in the console to know how the isy handles it (never thought about it).

The isy is seeing the second tap as a standard press which is why it reflects the pre-set level vs the actual level. 

Im not sure if this is something Udi can fix as I'm uncertain what message is sent during this time. You may have to query the device after a button press if this is needed. A variable updating after a second on command would work best

[xlurkr]

@Michel Kohanim

Is there anything you can do to get the AC (and REST calls, etc.) to reflect that the STATUS of a dimmer is 100% if it has an on level of less than 100% (or is currently at <100%), and is turned on a second time to go to 100%?  If not, OK, I'll use lilyoyo1's workarounds.  But I thought you might want to think about eliminating one possible source of STATUS being inaccurate, if it's not too difficult or problematic to implement.

 

-Tom

[kclenden]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:01 AM, lilyoyo1 said:

The isy is seeing the second tap as a standard press which is why it reflects the pre-set level vs the actual level. 

Edit: After posting the response below, I decided to retry my experiment and put more time between my first tap of the switch and second tap.  In the new test I waited 30 seconds between taps so that it would be clear which taps were responsible for which messages.

It turns out that both the first tap, and the second tap resulted in exactly the same two messages from the switch to the ISY:

02 50 24.74.B7 00.00.01 CF 11 00

02 50 24.74.B7 11.00.01 CF 06 00

Based on this, since the ISY is seeing the same two messages from the switch after the first and second taps, there is a temporal element that the ISY would have to keep track of to know that it should treat the second tap differently than the first.  I think that could get very complicated and thus why UD chose not to go down that alley.

Also note that any programs that look for a SWITCHED ON from the switch will treat the first and second tap as a switched on event.

I'm not sure this is actually the case.  I tried one of my SwitchLinc dimmers and observed the same behavior (first tap gives correct status in AC, second tap seemingly ignored in AC.  I had the Event Viewer open while I was doing this and here are the two messages the ISY received from the switch:

• First Tap
  02 50 24.74.B7 00.00.01 CF 11 00
  This can be decoded as:
  02 50 - Indicates standard message received
  24.74.B7 - Message originator (my dimmer switch)
  00.00.01 - Message addressee (I think this a group that the ISY and all linked devices belong to)
  CF - Flags indicating this is a Standard Group Message with 3 retransmits remaining out of a maximum of 3 retransmits
  11 - First Insteon command meaning Light ON at saved On-Level and Ramp Rate
  00 - Second Insteon command which I think is not used in this case
• Second Tap
  02 50 24.74.B7 11.00.01 CF 06 00
  This can be decoded as:
  02 50 - Indicates standard message received
  24.74.B7 - Message originator (my dimmer switch)
  11.00.01 - Message addressee (the docs I have seem to indicate that the 11 can't exist for a broadcast message and thus I don't know if the message addressee is recognized by the ISY)
  CF - Flags indicating this is a Standard Group Message with 3 retransmits remaining out of a maximum of 3 retransmits
  06 - First Insteon command - none of the documentation I have tells me what this command is
  00 - Second Insteon command - since I don't know what the 06 command is, I don't know what the second command might be

So the first tap of the switch seems to result in a normal standard message from the dimmer to the ISY.  The second tap sends a message the docs I have seem to indicate isn't valid, so I can certainly understand why the ISY might ignore it.  Hopefully UD has better documentation than me, and it is a simple oversight on their part not to process the second message.

@Michel Kohanim - do the details above help any?

[Allan Weaver]

I am experiencing this similar behavior on a Insteon 2477D DualBand Switch V41 installed June 2014 (3 Lvg Room wall sconces)

1. When turned on at switch, single tap, fixtures only lights to approx 60%. Dash board indicates OFF....(on level, applied locally set at 100%)

2. When second tap, lights to 100%. Dashboard indicates OFF.

3. When turned on at Dash board, lights go to 100% and Dash board indicates 100%. Off at Dash board, visa versa.

4. When switch manually dimmed ON to any percentage, Dash board indicates OFF.

5. When manually dimmed on at Dash board, switch responds accordingly.

 

Is there a recommend "health check" to conduct of the switch in communicating to ISY?

Thanks,

Allan

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, Allan Weaver said:

I am experiencing this similar behavior on a Insteon 2477D DualBand Switch V41 installed June 2014 (3 Lvg Room wall sconces)

1. When turned on at switch, single tap, fixtures only lights to approx 60%. Dash board indicates OFF....(on level, applied locally set at 100%)

2. When second tap, lights to 100%. Dashboard indicates OFF.

3. When turned on at Dash board, lights go to 100% and Dash board indicates 100%. Off at Dash board, visa versa.

4. When switch manually dimmed ON to any percentage, Dash board indicates OFF.

5. When manually dimmed on at Dash board, switch responds accordingly.

 

Is there a recommend "health check" to conduct of the switch in communicating to ISY?

Thanks,

Allan

Not unless you write a program for it