New Home, new platform, lots of questions

[skillet173]

Hey gang. I have recently purchased a new home and am in need of information before automating it. I apologize in advance for these and future questions!

My last home I built and "homeran" wiring for 41door/window contacts/16motions/??relays/10fire and smoke detectors/2T-stats, ??UPB and X-10 switches, etc.. I had it all running on an HAI OPII system with about 150-200 lines of programs. It ran pathway and night lighting, burglar/fire alarms, HVAC setbacks, etc.. The system was pretty reliable even with the x-10 being the weakest link. So that's where I'm coming from. A house that after 18 years my wife and kids really had no idea what 90% of the wall switches did as they never used them.

Now I am in a new house and in need of a new platform for automation. Obviously I can't go hardwired and I am considering the ISY994i w/Z-wave as a controller and either Z-wave or insteon switches and wireless motion detectors and contacts. The numbers will be limited initially as cost is a factor. I am also leery about PL signal loss having to bridge the 3(yes, 3) electrical panels in basement and the added cost of numerous slave switches. Builder/previous owner was owner of large electrical company, and house is electrically "overbuilt". I mean do you really need two switches for same hall light 5' apart?? NOT if you automate it!!! ?

Will the insteon switches be able to bridge the panels if I have the PLM hooked plugged into one panel and a switch in another? I don't want to go and invest in the ISY and 20-30 switches only to have the hub not able locate/communicate with the switches.  I have read that it should be okay as I have my own utility transformer in front of house feeding just me? (long driveway)

With the numerous switches will I be able to just put one insteon per load in or will I need to replace others with slaves? I think I know the answer to this ans will probably preclude me from automation numerous light loads. 

With the wireless sensors and detectors will I need additional "boosters" for signal? I don't want to impeded on the wi-fi network if possible, if they even work on that or are they all z-wave now? Sorry been out of build/customizing since HAI went out of business years ago.

That's my story and the questions I have for now.

Thanks in advance for your assistance and knowledge sharing!

Charlie 

 

[oberkc]

6 hours ago, skillet173 said:

Will the insteon switches be able to bridge the panels if I have the PLM hooked plugged into one panel and a switch in another?

Theoretically, insteon switches communicate via powerline and radio.  I don’t know that number of sub-panels is a major factor regarding insteon comms.  You are on a single transformer.  Communication between two legs of your electrical system is typically handled by the RF comms of insteon.

 

7 hours ago, skillet173 said:

With the numerous switches will I be able to just put one insteon per load in or will I need to replace others with slaves?

Inseon switches cannot be combined with standard switches to control a single load.  Each switch in a multi-way must be replaced.

 

7 hours ago, skillet173 said:

With the wireless sensors and detectors will I need additional "boosters" for signal?

It is possible, but would depend on number of insteon devices present, distance between them, contructuion and layout of house, etc.  In general, the more insteon devices, the better performance of the insteon network.

 

7 hours ago, skillet173 said:

I don't want to impeded on the wi-fi network if possible, if they even work on that or are they all z-wave now?

Neither insteon nor zwave will impact your wifi system.  Neither connects directly to wifi.

[asbril]

15 hours ago, skillet173 said:

With the numerous switches will I be able to just put one insteon per load in or will I need to replace others with slaves?

Zwave Inovelli switches, and I believe same with Zooz switches, allow you to keep your plain old standard switches as "slaves" in 3-way (or 4-way) set-ups.

[LFMc]

12 hours ago, oberkc said:

20 hours ago, skillet173 said:

With the numerous switches will I be able to just put one insteon per load in or will I need to replace others with slaves?

Inseon switches cannot be combined with standard switches to control a single load.  Each switch in a multi-way must be replaced.

I have instances in my house where I have dual and triple switches that just are not used. On these I put in one insteon and cap the others off. Then If I want to have another second or third switch, I will put in a KPL 6 button switch as a primary to another light and use one of the soft keys as a secondary switch to the primary of the other 2 or 3 way. 

Also, even if you have multiple panels, I would think you still only have two legs of power (110x2 in the US). So technically only one bridge would be needed to support PL signaling. But PL losses on long runs to and from any power panel is a possible problem. One way to minimize this is to put your ISY PLM in an outlet right at the power panels to cut the PL signaling losses in half.  But this also may put your PLM in an area that is "off center" to the rest of your Insteon wireless devices making the chance of more wireless hops probable. It depends on the configuration of your house and if the power panels are centrally located or not. The PLM doesn't have to be right next to the ISY. 

Also, do not forget the whole house surge protector! Cheap insurance.

Edited February 12, 2021 by LFMc

[lilyoyo1]

I would not worry about the insteon PL signal. It can travel up to a mile uninterrupted. In the real world however, you won't get nearly as far. The good thing is every device repeats the signal so that helps. Ditto with RF. 

Ive used insteon in many mcmansions without issue (including our own). While my next house will be C4, it's more about wanted what C4 offers vs insteon not being capable. 

Whether it's insteon or zwave, the less devices you want to invest in, the more precise you'll need to be in your execution. While you can potentially save money with zwave (in multi way setups) you could also spend significantly more (on repeaters) simply trying to get it to work properly. 

[skillet173]

Thanks for information so far. Thinking I'll start with the insteon switches and go from there using Zwave as an alternative if needed. Looking forward to the build process but not so much new learning curve with ISY. It looks like the basic programming will be similar to the OPII.

Do the insteon motion and "contact" sensors work well or are there better alternatives. Looking at them mostly for pathway lighting purposes and don't want a lot of "lag". 

Do you guys recommend purchasing directly from UD and insteon or do the Amazon vendors have reliable new up to date products?

Thanks again for input!

[Bumbershoot]

14 minutes ago, skillet173 said:

Looking at them mostly for pathway lighting purposes and don't want a lot of "lag". 

This is the area where I've found Insteon motion sensors linked to Insteon switches to be the best solution available.  Nearly instantaneous lighting upon motion being sensed, so there's no stumbling around in the dark.

There are reported shortages of Insteon modules these days, apparently due to supply chain issues related to the pandemic.

[oberkc]

5 hours ago, skillet173 said:

Do you guys recommend purchasing directly from UD and insteon or do the Amazon vendors have reliable new up to date products?

I have purchased everything directly.  I recall folks complaining of receiving older versions and trouble with warranty coverage when purchasing from amazon or other.