lhranch Posted May 21, 2021 Posted May 21, 2021 I have a couple of problem devices. One is an 8-key pad, 2334-2. The buttons on it don't always follow the state of the devices they are linked to, if that device is turned on or off from another switch. (Never the load button, as far as I remember, but the other seven.) The switch is about a year old, having replaced an earlier model of 8-key pad (single mode) that had exactly the same behavior, which is why I doubt it's a switch problem. I'll walk by the switch late at night and see one of the buttons lit, but the light it's associated with is off. I push it, the backlight goes off. I push it again, the backlight and the light come on. I push it again, and they both go off. I doubt it's a noisy connection, since I never have a problem controlling any of the lights from this keypad on the very first push. Any ideas? (Reset the switch is probably a non-starter, as this behavior continued from the moment this switch replaced the old switch.) I just discovered (due to some new screens in the 5.3 firmware I upgraded to just this morning, coming off 4.9) that another 8-pad (a 2487S) has a wonky key that is apparently stuck on. The device it controls is definitely off; I cycled it, and it did nothing to the remote button, which still reports as on. There doesn't seem to be any control in the admin panel I can find that will force the button off. I tried completely resetting the device, but the button still reports as on. It's in a remote building that I don't visit much, so the keypad doesn't get a lot of use. (Is this a common thing with keypads? I have only three, and two are showing this wonkiness.)
MrBill Posted May 21, 2021 Posted May 21, 2021 It's not common at all, I have about 20 8-button keypads scattered about (even more if I count 6 buttons that I wish I had just bought 8 buttons instead) , I've had to be careful how I set things up to make certain the back lights stay in sync. A couple of points: The only way the backlight of an non-load button can be controlled via the ISY is to put it in a scene and turn the scene on or off. Remember that a button can be included in multiple scenes. If using multiple switches don't control the load by itself. for example: if i turn on the scene for "Lamp 1" all the buttons associated with "Lamp 1" turn on. If I later use a program to just turn off the load and not the scene, the buttons become out of synch. I also use Alexa and Home Assistant as controls. I have helper programs to keep the buttons in sync and allow dimming via both platforms. How do you control the device normally? What scene's is it included in? For scenes with multiple controllers is each controller programed correctly for all members of the scene?
lilyoyo1 Posted May 21, 2021 Posted May 21, 2021 In addition to what was already posted, I would verify your 6 button is not in non toggle on mode. If it is, the button will always stay on. If all devices are associated together and controlling each other the same exact way, I would add each one to a single scene (if it's not already) as a controller and making sure all are triggering each other the same. Since you've recently updated, make sure that your firmware and UI matches.
lhranch Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 14 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: Since you've recently updated, make sure that your firmware and UI matches. I'll follow the other points up as I get time to experiment with them, but I thought I'd address this. I went back to ensure this was the case. The instructions say: Quote MAC Users: If you are using either Safari or Firefox, you can get to the download folder, please click on the button with a Down Arrow icon at the top right section of the screen and then right mouse click on start.jnlp and then choose Open. You will be prompted with a security warning dialog. Click Open. If this does not install the icon on your desktop... Well, it installs the icon on my desktop all right, but it's worthless: Quote You can’t use this version of the application “ISY Launcher.app” with this version of macOS. You have macOS 10.13.6. The application requires macOS 10.15 or later. Really, for a Java app? Very unfriendly. I'm not upgrading this Mac because later releases are SSD-dependent and trash spinners. Looks like from now on I'll just have to open it via start.jnlp when I need it.
lhranch Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, MrBill said: The only way the backlight of an non-load button can be controlled via the ISY is to put it in a scene and turn the scene on or off. Remember that a button can be included in multiple scenes. If using multiple switches don't control the load by itself. for example: if i turn on the scene for "Lamp 1" all the buttons associated with "Lamp 1" turn on. If I later use a program to just turn off the load and not the scene, the buttons become out of synch. I also use Alexa and Home Assistant as controls. I have helper programs to keep the buttons in sync and allow dimming via both platforms. How do you control the device normally? What scene's is it included in? For scenes with multiple controllers is each controller programed correctly for all members of the scene? There's only one load I control programmatically, and even then I do it via scenes. The buttons that are sticking on (or sometimes off) are other than that load. Here's an example of the scene for one of the lights that constantly misbehaves. As far as I can see, it's pure vanilla. Oh what joy -- I have serendipitously caught it in wonky state! So here is a related screen: OK, now I think I see the problem -- it's not a responder to Pool Deck Floods Switch. It's looks even more widespread: Pool Deck Floods Switch isn't even a controller for its own device's scene, never mind the Nook button. Is that right? How did that happen? If I click on Pool Deck Floods Switch and try to add it to the scene, it tells me it's already there. Well, it's a direct load switch, so... It's like the ISY (or the UI, whatever) is misconfiguring/mislinking these scenes. Edited May 22, 2021 by lhranch
lilyoyo1 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, lhranch said: There's only one load I control programmatically, and even then I do it via scenes. The buttons that are sticking on (or sometimes off) are other than that load. Here's an example of the scene for one of the lights that constantly misbehaves. As far as I can see, it's pure vanilla. Oh what joy -- I have serendipitously caught it in wonky state! So here is a related screen: OK, now I think I see the problem -- it's not a responder to Pool Deck Floods Switch. It's looks even more widespread: Pool Deck Floods Switch isn't even a controller for its own device's scene, never mind the Nook button. Is that right? How did that happen? If I click on Pool Deck Floods Switch and try to add it to the scene, it tells me it's already there. Well, it's a direct load switch, so... It's like the ISY (or the UI, whatever) is misconfiguring/mislinking these scenes. You never said if your UI matched your firmware. If they do not, this could be why your isy is behaving this way Check your scene itself. Controllers should be in red while responders are blue. If you want these lights to behave as if they were a multi-way switch then all should be controllers
lhranch Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said: You never said if your UI matched your firmware. If they do not, this could be why your isy is behaving this way Check your scene itself. Controllers should be in red while responders are blue. If you want these lights to behave as if they were a multi-way switch then all should be controllers I said in the original post that I just updated the ISY to 5.3 this morning. I said in my second post that I re-downloaded the UI (which I what I understand the start.jnlp thing to be) bout an hour ago, just to make sure. If that doesn't answer your question, then I don't know how to answer your question. Tell me what to look for. You have an image of my scene in the previous post. I don't see any blues anywhere, just a red Off and a red On. If I have any more information available to me than what is in that screen, I don't know about it. I agree with your statement that "they should all be controllers." But you're not telling me how to achieve that, and what you see in those screens is what the UI/ISY gave me when I originally created that scene.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, lhranch said: I said in the original post that I just updated the ISY to 5.3 this morning. I said in my second post that I re-downloaded the UI (which I what I understand the start.jnlp thing to be) bout an hour ago, just to make sure. If that doesn't answer your question, then I don't know how to answer your question. Tell me what to look for. You have an image of my scene in the previous post. I don't see any blues anywhere, just a red Off and a red On. If I have any more information available to me than what is in that screen, I don't know about it. I agree with your statement that "they should all be controllers." But you're not telling me how to achieve that, and what you see in those screens is what the UI/ISY gave me when I originally created that scene. I acknowledged that you updated to 5.3 in your original post which is why I asked if your UI matched. If it doesn't you will have issues such as what you're experiencing. Downloading something doesn't mean your UI matches. The instructions says to clear your Java cache which you did not say whether you did or not. A quick look at the help>about tab would show the information I'm asking for. Your pictures so not show the scene itself from the device column on the left hand side of the admin console.
lhranch Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: I acknowledged that you updated to 5.3 in your original post which is why I asked if your UI matched. If it doesn't you will have issues such as what you're experiencing. Downloading something doesn't mean your UI matches. The instructions says to clear your Java cache which you did not say whether you did or not. A quick look at the help>about tab would show the information I'm asking for. Your pictures so not show the scene itself from the device column on the left hand side of the admin console. Yes, I cleared my Java cache every time I downloaded a new start.jnlp, as instructed. I got rid of Trace and Log Files, and Cached Applications and Applets. I didn't get rid of Installed Applications and Applets, because it didn't come pre-checked, indicating it was something I was likely not to want to do. The About tab for ISY Finder says "Java version 1.0 (1.8.0_291)", which appears totally useless to me. I know I'm running 1.8.0_291, from the Java Control Panel. If downloading start.jnlp doesn't update this, then damned if I know how else to do it. All I have are the Wiki install instructions. Once I open up the device, I can see the following, which I assume is what you've been asking for. But to be honest, this scene was created quite some time ago, under 4.something, and I have no way of knowing what it said then. The scene, as depicted in the left-hand column, looks like this: That looks much more straightforward and exactly what one would expect to see. But the detailed information in the various main windows seems to indicate issues.
lilyoyo1 Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, lhranch said: Yes, I cleared my Java cache every time I downloaded a new start.jnlp, as instructed. I got rid of Trace and Log Files, and Cached Applications and Applets. I didn't get rid of Installed Applications and Applets, because it didn't come pre-checked, indicating it was something I was likely not to want to do. The About tab for ISY Finder says "Java version 1.0 (1.8.0_291)", which appears totally useless to me. I know I'm running 1.8.0_291, from the Java Control Panel. If downloading start.jnlp doesn't update this, then damned if I know how else to do it. All I have are the Wiki install instructions. Once I open up the device, I can see the following, which I assume is what you've been asking for. But to be honest, this scene was created quite some time ago, under 4.something, and I have no way of knowing what it said then. The scene, as depicted in the left-hand column, looks like this: That looks much more straightforward and exactly what one would expect to see. But the detailed information in the various main windows seems to indicate issues. The pool deck floods switch is a response not a controller so that is part of it. Make sure the devices are configured in all controllers too, not just the scene. Simply remove the responder and add it back to the scene as a controller
lhranch Posted May 22, 2021 Author Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) Thanks. Now that you point this out, I see that almost without exception, nearly every switch I have is not a controller of its device's scene, but only a responder. I really don't know how that could have happened I can see I have a bit of reconfiguration ahead of me. Edit: I think I understand why I set it up this way. It was a misunderstanding of the semantics. If the direct load of a switch was the device I wanted the scene to control, I considered the switch to be the "target" of the scene and therefore made it a responder. I see now that was not the proper semantics. Thanks again. Edited May 23, 2021 by lhranch
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