Why no decent sales on Insteon devices?

[jonsmirl]

Amazon is not selling those, sold by:

• PhotonLight.com, Inc.
  • 2646 Willamette St
  • Eugene OR 97405

Some nice person is taking your Amazon order, buying retail from Smarthome and then reshipping the devices to you. Taking about $10 a device for their trouble.

Smarthome, Inc not paying attention and running their own store on Amazon.

Someone in this shady looking building....

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2646+Willamette+St,+Eugene,+OR+97405/@44.0292237,-123.0897295,125a,35y,281.02h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x54c11e53951789e1:0x3d0cc7542b533288!8m2!3d44.0296092!4d-123.0912011

 

[Goose66]

Has anybody used the Kasa smartplugs with (potentially cheap) LED Christmas light strings? These LED strings cause several problems with older Inteon plug-in modules - primarily noise preventing their remote control, occasional flashing of the light string when "On," and occasional dim glowing of the light string when "Off."

Edited June 10, 2021 by Goose66

[MrBill]

22 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

Has anybody used the Kasa smartplugs with (potentially cheap) LED Christmas light strings? These LED strings cause several problems with older Inteon plug-in modules - primarily noise preventing their remote control, occasional flashing of the light string when "On," and occasional dim glowing of the light string when "Off."

Yes I have.  No problem found.  They do not have leaking current for the load-sense feature like the Insteon modules. Specifically this one is what I used. 3 of them last christmas with cheap lights like this and this.  (the second one I know for a fact doesn't work with an Insteon module without the night light trick, but was fine with the Kasa.)

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by MrBill

[Goose66]

58 minutes ago, MrBill said:

Yes I have.  No problem found.  They do not have leaking current for the load-sense feature like the Insteon modules. Specifically this one is what I used. 3 of them last christmas with cheap lights like this and this.  (the second one I know for a fact doesn't work with an Insteon module without the night light trick, but was fine with the Kasa.)

 

Great! I'll give them a try. Just FYI, when I said christmas lights I meant more like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825JB13B. No solid-state power supply - just a rectifying diode inline with the lights. We'll see how they do.

[MrBill]

8 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

Great! I'll give them a try. Just FYI, when I said christmas lights I meant more like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0825JB13B. No solid-state power supply - just a rectifying diode inline with the lights. We'll see how they do.

They work with this too... I'll double check right now because I happen to have a string in my desk drawer... no news is good news (if I don't reply again it was no problem... I'll turn them on then turn them off a few times and leave them laying here the rest of the day turned off via Kasa.

[Dogan Bora]

This is their site.  What am I missing?

[Brian H]

Take a look at the Amazon ad,

The one I found  on Amazon. The item is being sold by an Amazon Vendor.  PhotoLight.com Inc.

Not Smarthome or Smartlabs.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Brian H

[jonsmirl]

Look on the right side below the yellow buttons -- Ships and sold by PhotonLight.com

This whole "Insteon Store" is not SmartLabs.  It is simply someone buying the devices from SmartLabs and reselling them to you at a markup for the convenience of shipping them via Amazon.

SmartLabs could shut this down in a minute if they were to put up their own store.

Edited June 10, 2021 by jonsmirl

[MrBill]

5 minutes ago, jonsmirl said:

Look on the right side below the yellow buttons -- Ships and sold by PhotonLight.com

This whole "Insteon Store" is not SmartLabs.  It is simply someone buying the devices from SmartLabs and reselling them to you at a markup for the convenience of shipping them via Amazon.

I agree with you that the item being discussed is a 3rd party vendor....

Typically smarthome direct items appear as Prime items "Sold by Amazon, Shipped from Amazon" like this one.   Typically when Smarthome has the 15/20/30% off sales those items "Sold by Amazon, Shipped from Amazon" like the linked one will also discount.

There have been several cases lately where third party vendors have been selling scare items at higher cost via amzon... I linked a $99 PLM in another thread in the last few weeks where that was also the case.

[jonsmirl]

Sold by Amazon, shipped by Amazon means Amazon bought these wholesale from Smartlabs and is reshipping them.  I can't find any listings directly for sale from SmartLabs. I think their marketing person must have quit. They used to directly sell on Amazon.

Edited June 10, 2021 by jonsmirl

[lilyoyo1]

43 minutes ago, jonsmirl said:

Sold by Amazon, shipped by Amazon means Amazon bought these wholesale from Smartlabs and is reshipping them.  I can't find any listings directly for sale from SmartLabs. I think their marketing person must have quit. They used to directly sell on Amazon.

They have not quit. With limited stock coming in, they are selling through their own store vs. Amazon

[MrBill]

Years ago, When smarthome was having a 20% (or some percent off sale) I noticed they lowered all the prices on Amazon to match.  I placed a huge order via Amazon instead of Smarhome for the 2 day Prime delivery (everything I wanted was Prime)... the order would have qualified for free freight from smarthome, but smarthome typically doesn't get it shipped until Tuesday or Wednesday of the week after the sale (usually monday's a holiday) then I'm 4 UPS days from Smarthome so it would be Monday or Tuesday of the next week before I'd get the smarthome order... which seems like an eternity when you're waiting for it..

So I thought well it's sold by SmartHome anyway, it's got prime delivery, the price is lowered to the sale price, I'll get it from Amazon instead....   What a mistake... the order arrived in like 38 boxes!  Somewhere I have a picture of it on my front step... the other thing was it was shipped from all over the place. and contained many versions of the same products.... I cleaned out all the Amazon warehouses for them tho... 3 different rev's of fanlincs, etc... not even all the inner boxes were the same style design... some new, some older.  That was the last time I ordered any insteon from Amazon.

[jonsmirl]

I need a dozen dimmers to replace dead 2476Ds. Guess I will keep waiting for a sale and experimenting with newer wifi models. I'd love to see a customer appreciation sale or similar. Let me mail back dead 2476Ds for 50% off from replacement 2477Ds.

[Goose66]

The last batch of undiscounted 2635-222's I bought on Amazon were $49.99 a piece and sold by Smarthome, but they were fulfilled by Amazon (which means they arrived with Prime 2-day shipping). The batch before that was $49.00 a piece and sold by Amazon.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Goose66

[fasttimes]

I’m really frustrated about this too.  I’ve spent thousands of dollars and many hours on Insteon devices and all I want is a reasonable price for buying in quantity.

[silverton38]

On 6/8/2021 at 11:40 AM, jonsmirl said:

If you are buying new devices going forward I would recommend Zigbee or Wifi based devices. That is because Matter is going to be announced at CES 2022 and it is really going to shake up the smart device market since Apple, Amazon and Google are all supporting it.

Zigbee or Wifi devices you buy today won't support Matter, but it is likely they can be reflashed to support it. Zwave is not part of Matter.

https://buildwithmatter.com/

WIFI devices are a bit of a joke. They are almost all Tuya based and they do things like disappear and need to be reinstalled. They kill WIFI networks if you have too many of them. They are also cloud dependent which also adds to the reliability issue.

[larryllix]

44 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

WIFI devices are a bit of a joke. They are almost all Tuya based and they do things like disappear and need to be reinstalled. They kill WIFI networks if you have too many of them. They are also cloud dependent which also adds to the reliability issue.

I have over 35 WiFi RGBWW/CW bulbs. While they do present some challenges for home LANs, I do not depend on any cloud service for them. I have managed to avoid the Tuya items and the protocol is very complex and too difficult to hack for me.

Instead, I use all MagicHome bulbs and RGBWW/CW strips. I have written bridge software to make them act as scenes without delays between bulb activations (popcorn effect). This is all controlled by ISY NRs and I can cause local bulb effects for warnings and alarms.

MagicHome RGBCW protocol bulbs have just come back on the market everywhere for less than $10 each for 9 Watt units. 7Watt units are even cheaper.

Edited August 11, 2021 by larryllix

[apostolakisl]

22 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I have over 35 WiFi RGBWW/CW bulbs. While they do present some challenges for home LANs, I do not depend on any cloud service for them. I have managed to avoid the Tuya items and the protocol is very complex and too difficult to hack for me.

Instead, I use all MagicHome bulbs and RGBWW/CW strips. I have written bridge software to make them act as scenes without delays between bulb activations (popcorn effect). This is all controlled by ISY NRs and I can cause local bulb effects for warnings and alarms.

MagicHome RGBCW protocol bulbs have just come back on the market everywhere for less than $10 each for 9 Watt units. 7Watt units are even cheaper.

I'm pretty hesitant about rgb bulbs and any bulb that does not specify cri.  Personally, I don't really ever want to have anything but regular light and I like my light to not make people look sick.  I looked up these bulbs and they don't say anything about cri, which perhaps is because the color isn't fixed.  But probably the cri is not very good or they would brag on it.  I have been to homes of people who have these, and they get all giddy when they show me how they can change the color, then, once the party trick is over, the lights get set back to "white" for the rest of the night.  It has been my experience that straight up high quality led's with long life and good cri cost a bit more, so I'm thinking at this price and with all the other costs of the wifi and whatnot, the actual light part of the light isn't very good.

[larryllix]

58 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

I'm pretty hesitant about rgb bulbs and any bulb that does not specify cri.  Personally, I don't really ever want to have anything but regular light and I like my light to not make people look sick.  I looked up these bulbs and they don't say anything about cri, which perhaps is because the color isn't fixed.  But probably the cri is not very good or they would brag on it.  I have been to homes of people who have these, and they get all giddy when they show me how they can change the color, then, once the party trick is over, the lights get set back to "white" for the rest of the night.  It has been my experience that straight up high quality led's with long life and good cri cost a bit more, so I'm thinking at this price and with all the other costs of the wifi and whatnot, the actual light part of the light isn't very good.

Colour of the light is not CRI. AFAIK CRI can only be applied to white light. My cheapie bulbs are stated at >80 CRI but the MiLight bulbs I used previously were way over 90 CRI judging by the quality of light. They far exceeded any white LED or CFL bulb I have ever experienced.

Note: RGBCW bulbs do not use the RGB LEDs to produce white.

 

Note the LEDs are lablled for function beside each unit.

Edited August 11, 2021 by larryllix

[apostolakisl]

58 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Colour of the light is not CRI. AFAIK CRI can only be applied to white light. My cheapie bulbs are stated at >80 CRI but the MiLight bulbs I used previously were way over 90 CRI judging by the quality of light. They far exceeded any white LED or CFL bulb I have ever experienced.

Note: RGBCW bulbs do not use the RGB LEDs to produce white.

 

Note the LEDs are lablled for function beside each unit.

"

I assume they use some mix of the rgb leds to create white light, perhaps in combination with some white leds.  I say this because I have seen some that will change the color temperature of their "white" light per your choice.  That is almost certainly done by adding in some red or blue.  Regardless, when in "white" light mode, they will have a cri but none seems to be listed.  I must assume this lack of info is because the info is bad.  Perhaps I am not finding the info, but if it were some really good number, I can't imagine it wouldn't be front and center.  Cri really does make a difference when looking at people's faces (and lots of other things, but in the living room, it is faces that matter).  

[silverton38]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

I have over 35 WiFi RGBWW/CW bulbs. While they do present some challenges for home LANs, I do not depend on any cloud service for them. I have managed to avoid the Tuya items and the protocol is very complex and too difficult to hack for me.

Instead, I use all MagicHome bulbs and RGBWW/CW strips. I have written bridge software to make them act as scenes without delays between bulb activations (popcorn effect). This is all controlled by ISY NRs and I can cause local bulb effects for warnings and alarms.

MagicHome RGBCW protocol bulbs have just come back on the market everywhere for less than $10 each for 9 Watt units. 7Watt units are even cheaper.

You have made the point exactly. If I need to install a reliable home automation system in a high end house with a user that does not understand anything but pressing a button the last thing on earth I would do would be to hack a bunch of WIFI devices that may or may not kill his WIFI system. 

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

I assume they use some mix of the rgb leds to create white light, perhaps in combination with some white leds.  I say this because I have seen some that will change the color temperature of their "white" light per your choice.  That is almost certainly done by adding in some red or blue.  Regardless, when in "white" light mode, they will have a cri but none seems to be listed.  I must assume this lack of info is because the info is bad.  Perhaps I am not finding the info, but if it were some really good number, I can't imagine it wouldn't be front and center.  Cri really does make a difference when looking at people's faces (and lots of other things, but in the living room, it is faces that matter).  

Look at the photo I posted. There are Warm White LEDs, Cool White LEDS, and RGB LEDS. These bulbs are 8 watts of WW or CW LED and you can turn them both on, giving 16 Watts of mixed white light. Of course the RGB LEDs can only put out about 2 Watts of each colour but that seems to be standard for all the RGBCW bulbs I have had so far, no matter what the white ratings are.

In all the Magic Home bulb breeds I have none will mix a white and RGB. They cannot be on at the same time. My MagicHome protocol  RGBWW strips can mix WW, CW and RGB and all at full brightness in any colour. Those ones have a beautiful warm white CRI....creamy white without the yellow tinge, somewhere around 3000K but all colours are very visible when they are on. Usually it is the blues that suffer, looking black.

[apostolakisl]

19 hours ago, larryllix said:

Look at the photo I posted. There are Warm White LEDs, Cool White LEDS, and RGB LEDS. These bulbs are 8 watts of WW or CW LED and you can turn them both on, giving 16 Watts of mixed white light. Of course the RGB LEDs can only put out about 2 Watts of each colour but that seems to be standard for all the RGBCW bulbs I have had so far, no matter what the white ratings are.

In all the Magic Home bulb breeds I have none will mix a white and RGB. They cannot be on at the same time. My MagicHome protocol  RGBWW strips can mix WW, CW and RGB and all at full brightness in any colour. Those ones have a beautiful warm white CRI....creamy white without the yellow tinge, somewhere around 3000K but all colours are very visible when they are on. Usually it is the blues that suffer, looking black.

color temperature ie "warm" and color rendering are different things.  You can't appreciate cri from a photograph.  A lot of people won't realize it until you alternate between a good cri and a bad cri and see how much different things look.  For example, I had some poor cri bulbs in one hallway and good cri bulbs in a different hallway.  Both hallways had the same paint, but the one hallway looked ghastly.  I started to look into repainting, but later realized it was the same paint.  So I changed the bulbs instead.  And of course it depends on the exact wavelength "holes" that a particular bulb has and the color of the object you are illuminating.  So two bulbs with a identical cri and temperature won't necessarily look the same.  Or a particular bulb may look very nice in one situation, and bad in another.  A CRI of 100 is a perfectly flat spectrum and accurately displays the color of any object.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

color temperature ie "warm" and color rendering are different things.  You can't appreciate cri from a photograph.  A lot of people won't realize it until you alternate between a good cri and a bad cri and see how much different things look.  For example, I had some poor cri bulbs in one hallway and good cri bulbs in a different hallway.  Both hallways had the same paint, but the one hallway looked ghastly.  I started to look into repainting, but later realized it was the same paint.  So I changed the bulbs instead.  And of course it depends on the exact wavelength "holes" that a particular bulb has and the color of the object you are illuminating.  So two bulbs with a identical cri and temperature won't necessarily look the same.  Or a particular bulb may look very nice in one situation, and bad in another.  A CRI of 100 is a perfectly flat spectrum and accurately displays the color of any object.

Yes. There are colour wheels that can demonstrate how good any CRI is.

Mostly the problem is the narrow bandwidth of the blue LED. Some LED bulbs use phosphors inside the shell to distribute a more even spectrum.

My photo point was about your comment about mixing RGB LED colours with white.
"I assume they use some mix of the rgb leds to create white light, perhaps in combination with some white leds. "
That is not being done in any of my bulbs. Most are not capable of that and it is not required.

[apostolakisl]

19 hours ago, larryllix said:

Yes. There are colour wheels that can demonstrate how good any CRI is.

Mostly the problem is the narrow bandwidth of the blue LED. Some LED bulbs use phosphors inside the shell to distribute a more even spectrum.

My photo point was about your comment about mixing RGB LED colours with white.
"I assume they use some mix of the rgb leds to create white light, perhaps in combination with some white leds. "
That is not being done in any of my bulbs. Most are not capable of that and it is not required.

OK, well I don't really know how these bulbs work.  I do know that some bulbs use a mixture of led's of different colors to make white light.  The cree ceiling trophers I have at work, if you look at the top side of them you'll see little light beams of rgb popping through cracks and my cree ceiling cans at home, when you dim them, if you look directly at them you'll see hints of separate separate colored light sources glowing.  I can't complain about those cree ceiling trophers, I have ones that are on 24/7 and are nearly 10 years old.  You can't tell the difference between those and the ones right next to them that are only on 40 hours per week.

Most of your "Edison" style led bulbs use uv leds and phosphorous coatings to produce "white" light.  It works pretty well, especially for candelabra style bulbs and has a descent cri since it isn't an led that makes the light but rather phosphorous.  Similar to a fluorescent light.