bcdavis75 Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 I emailed Smarthome.com to see if they had an info and when it would be in stock and this was the answer: "Thank you for contacting Smarthome Support. Our apologies for the inconvenience caused. We understand that you would like to know about the availability of our products, we would be happy to assist you further! We had escalated the issue to our resources, and we got an update stating that the Insteon PLM (Item # 2413S) is a discontinued product and we do not have any immediate plans to bring the Insteon PLM back in due to limited sales." Given the propensity of failure with these PLM's, what are ISY owners supposed to do if this is true?
larryllix Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 This would be no surprise from our friends at the Insteon death camp. Good thing Polisy has two extra Ethernet ports to support the Insteon Hub as an I/O appliance. 1 1
bcdavis75 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Posted June 30, 2021 28 minutes ago, larryllix said: This would be no surprise from our friends at the Insteon death camp. Good thing Polisy has two extra Ethernet ports to support the Insteon Hub as an I/O appliance. Granted I've been a little out of the loop. But we can't run ISY on the Polisy yet correct? And if we could, I'm not sure how the extra ethernet ports help. You still need an interface to plug into the wall right?
larryllix Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, bcdavis75 said: Granted I've been a little out of the loop. But we can't run ISY on the Polisy yet correct? And if we could, I'm not sure how the extra ethernet ports help. You still need an interface to plug into the wall right? The Polisy has three Ethernet ports. One is required to connect to your LAN/WAN. One could be used to connect to an Insteon Hub which contains the same PLM circuitry inside. The Insteon Hub plugs into a receptacle. I believe this have been planned for a long time. Insteon hangs UDI out to dry while dedicated Insteon fans need to buy more equipment from Insteon to continue using their products. UDI has possibly sensed, or known this, for years and moved on to also support Zwave. OTOH: Insteon could be replacing the PLM with a newer improved version. Users are never included in this loop. Distributors would be stuck with old devices. Edited June 30, 2021 by larryllix 2 1
MrBill Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, larryllix said: This would be no surprise from our friends at the Insteon death camp. Good thing Polisy has two extra Ethernet ports to support the Insteon Hub as an I/O appliance. I've been wondering what the hardware configuration is for Insteon ISY on Polisy. There are USB serial ports, but I don't believe there is a port compatible with 2413s. Since it's apparently in testing maybe @Michel Kohanim can give us a hint about things to come. I have two hypothesis, but I'm not sharing them because they are both nothing more than my wild *** guesses.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 Its nothing directed personally towards UDI since the Isy isn't the only game in town. This would effect anything that requires a PLM. While the PLM isn't completely disco'd, being on hold the way it is comes from certain people making short term decisions assuming loyalty and the insteon brand goes farther than it really does. I don't think they've looked at the bigger picture. Whole their new line will be out soon, existing users won't flock to it due to mistrust in regards to long term support. Those looking to grow their systems will do the same. They fail to realize the space they're operating in is like a road to nowhere.... At some point, you'll get to the end. To many cheaper products already fill that road. Their system is a stepping stone that allows you to grow into something much more capable. Anything else, it's just an overpriced remote for lights. Hopefully they'll realize soon enough and produce more or at least release the new PLM before things get dicey. If it gets that far, i guess if have to get in the bandwagon myself and talk about how doomed they are 3
Brian H Posted June 30, 2021 Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) In the FCC Database. Smartlabs has a replacement for the 2413S PLM. 2234-223 serial version 2234-222 USB Much better specifications. Like universal power supply, larger link database, faster clock, better RF and power line signal processing . Serial and USB versions where shown. Now will it ever see the light of day. That is another unknown. Edited July 1, 2021 by Brian H Removed networked version. Add information 1
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Brian H said: In the FCC Database. Smartlabs has a replacement for the 2413S PLM. Much better specifications. Like universal power supply, larger link database and faster clock. Serial, USB and networked versions where shown. Now will it ever see the light of day. That is another unknown. It will along with the rest of the devices. Just don't know a release date yet
hart2hart Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 I’m sure this has been asked but has a serial to usb device been used to enable the USB PLM to be used with ISY?I don’t agree with the SM decision but serial devices are seldom used now.At least might be solution in the short term..
larryllix Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 6 hours ago, MrBill said: I've been wondering what the hardware configuration is for Insteon ISY on Polisy. There are USB serial ports, but I don't believe there is a port compatible with 2413s. Since it's apparently in testing maybe @Michel Kohanim can give us a hint about things to come. I have two hypothesis, but I'm not sharing them because they are both nothing more than my wild *** guesses. Just looked at mine. Two USB ports, three Ethernet and a DB-9, likely an RS-232 or serial port. I believe the existing PLM is a TTL level serial port though. Maybe use a USB/TTL serial port adapter??
gviliunas Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 PLMs shipped with DB9 to RJ45 cables. I was expecting to use this to connect the PLM to Polisy when the time came. 1
larryllix Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, gviliunas said: PLMs shipped with DB9 to RJ45 cables. I was expecting to use this to connect the PLM to Polisy when the time came. I forgot about those cables. The signal levels may be a problem if the DB9 is RS232 standard though.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 The problem with the USB version is that it's the same as the serial version. Just a different connector. Once 2413u is gone it's gone
Brian H Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 The serial port daughter board. Has a RS232 interface chip. MAX232 in <V2.3 and a MAX232EI (better ESD specification) in >V2.3. 2.4 Also added a input protection network on the two serial signals. It also has two TTL level signals on it. Though it is not protected at all. The signals tie to the TTL signals on the serial port chip and no buffer or protection at all from the outside world.
hart2hart Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 The problem with the USB version is that it's the same as the serial version. Just a different connector. Once 2413u is gone it's goneVery true but the email I was reacting to said the 2413S was being discontinued. Maybe the will still sell U version as it has more sales from other HA platforms?Also, thinking if something could be engineered, we could buy several of them now to bridge UD to whatever the future holds. I also recall a post from someone and picture using a Hub as a PLM by doing done wiring he said would be obvious to those that understood the chip set. Lastly I’m thinking a RPi as a middle man could be worked out to do translation. Keep in mind, I’m wanting to help someone needing a plm now and being out of luck.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, hart2hart said: Very true but the email I was reacting to said the 2413S was being discontinued. Maybe the will still sell U version as it has more sales from other HA platforms? Also, thinking if something could be engineered, we could buy several of them now to bridge UD to whatever the future holds. I also recall a post from someone and picture using a Hub as a PLM by doing done wiring he said would be obvious to those that understood the chip set. That's not the case
hart2hart Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 That's not the case Usb version is listed in stock right now though.
larryllix Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) Strange how Insteon support people keep issuing the same lie about the PLM. That's the second person to report the same lie from Insteon. Edited July 1, 2021 by larryllix
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, hart2hart said: Usb version is listed in stock right now though. Being in stock is an indication of sales (or lack thereof). Not them being produced while the 2413s isn't
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, larryllix said: Strange how Insteon support people keep issuing the same lie about the PLM. That's the second person to report the same lie from Insteon. If you knew the company it wouldn't be strange. Even when support was based out of Irvine, there was still limited communication between the powers that be and those on the phone. Most information was found via relationships between co-workers than direct communication like it should've been. Edited July 1, 2021 by lilyoyo1
hart2hart Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 Being in stock is an indication of sales (or lack thereof). Not them being produced while the 2413s isn't I totally agree. My process is helping someone with a need for plm today. Can usb version be converted to serial for ISY ? If do they could order snd get back online. No prediction of future. Just pragmatic help out s fellow ISY user if possible right now.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, hart2hart said: I totally agree. My process is helping someone with a need for plm today. Can usb version be converted to serial for ISY ? If do they could order snd get back online. No prediction of future. Just pragmatic help out s fellow ISY user if possible right now. Unfortunately no. The 2422-222 has a PLM built in and can be used separate from the insteon hub app. Not sure if the isy was ever updated to take advantage of that. I know the houselinc software could. Just don't know if UDI ever did anything with it. @Michel Kohanimwould be able to answer that if he knows anything about that capability Edited July 1, 2021 by lilyoyo1
hart2hart Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 Unfortunately no. The 2422-222 has a PLM built in and can be used separate from the insteon hub app. Not sure if the isy was ever updated to take advantage of that. I know the houselinc software could. Just don't know if UDI ever did anything with it. @Michel Kohanimwould be able to answer that if he knows anything about that capabilityOut of pure curiosity, I ordered a 2413U. Gonna hook it to RPi with usb A to B cable. Then hook up an USB A to serial converter to RPi. I’ve used several of them on PC. See if drivers exist that will recognize the devices and if I can locate them try to write software to connect reads and writes between them.
MrBill Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 11 hours ago, larryllix said: Just looked at mine. Two USB ports, three Ethernet and a DB-9, likely an RS-232 or serial port. I believe the existing PLM is a TTL level serial port though. Maybe use a USB/TTL serial port adapter?? I had forgotten about the DB9, but for some reason I thought it was the dedicated console port, but apparently the console port isn't exposed on the back-panel, it's on-board only. So the DB9 must be where Insteon goes. Thankfully I never throw away cables that come with a device.
Brian H Posted July 1, 2021 Posted July 1, 2021 The 2442-222 HUB I saw a modification photo of. Had the separate Network board removed and had what looked like a 2413S serial port daughter board wired to the control board. I don't know if they also redid the firmware in the main processor and maybe the RF processor. The 2445-222 HUB the network interface is on the same control board. 1
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