Experience with Polygot vs IFTTT

[UD2)17rrh]

Hello.  I have been connecting Wireless Tags and my ISY through IFTTT to date.  Generally works ok, but sometimes see I some misreads in the system (e.g Wireless Tag motion sensor fails to execute and does not turn on a light on via IFTTT).  I think I know the answer here, but I presume Polisy/Polygot would offer a much better, reliable interface between the two as I can uncouple all the instructions through IFTTT and all the interactions through Polisy would stay "local".  Correct?  

[Geddy]

11 hours ago, UD2)17rrh said:

all the interactions through Polisy would stay "local".  Correct? 

I just recently started using Wireless Tags and the Polisy and I don't know 100%, but don't think this would all "stay local". I think it's got to progress through the Wireless Tag manager that's going to their cloud method then the Polisy is using the cloud connection to that account to then adjust the ISY information. So I would say "NO" it would all stay local, but that's just my guess at how I would expect these to progress. I don't think there's any local processing of the wireless tag information in the tag manager. Perhaps others that have more experience will chime in, but wanted to offer my experience.

I've been very happy with the reliability of the Tags/Polisy/ISY process, but I haven't explored a lot of the features to really handle quick interactions. I mostly use them to make sure freezer/fridge and beverage fridge are keeping temps in expected range. 

I know from using IFTTT in the past that there was always a delay with all the communication involved that it was unreliable. I would expect the Polisy should improve reliability and reaction time.

 

[apostolakisl]

No, it is not local.  The message is relayed through the wireless tag server.  If your internet goes down or wireless tag goes bankrupt, you are sol.  Having said that, I use wireless tags and the relay is very fast, maybe 100ms at most.  If you want local, you need something that is directly supported by ISY.  Insteon/Zwave/X10

[MrBill]

@Geddy is correct, it doesn't stay local.  Tag --> Tag Manager (rf) --> WirelessTags Windows Server Cloud Server --> Tag Manager (ethernet) --> Polisy Nodeserver --> ISY

it does cut out the cloud to cloud connection to IFTTT and gives you more control, but you're still at the mercy of the "WirelessTags Windows Server Cloud Server" and your internet connection.   The Windows server does have occasional downtime like this recent Full Disk Event.  Overall tho it works better than IFTTT, which I also used before Polisy.

[Goose66]

45 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

If you want local, you need something that is directly supported by ISY.  Insteon/Zwave/X10

There are many nodeservers that support a variety of devices locally, i.e. without intervening cloud-based services. Autelis Pool Control, Bond Bridge for Fan/Shade/Light control, Envisalink support for DSC and Honeywell alarm panels, Sony AVR control, and Venstar ColorTouch thermostat control are just a few, random ones that come to mind. ?

Also, the README.MD for @Jimbo's Wireless Tag nodeserver says the nodeserver monitors the tags locally. Appears to me that the requirement for access to the cloud service is for forwarding status information?

[apostolakisl]

54 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

 

Also, the README.MD for @Jimbo's Wireless Tag nodeserver says the nodeserver monitors the tags locally. Appears to me that the requirement for access to the cloud service is for forwarding status information?

There is no wireless tag configuration in polyglot for a local connection, only a an authorization key to connect to the server.  I have not tried to disconnect the internet and see if wireless tag still works, but I'm going to say fat chance.  There would have to be some behind the scenes configuration that happens between polyglot and wireless tag server where wireless tag server feeds polyglot the local configuration after it connects to their server.  Really doubt it.

 

[Goose66]

Hopefully @Jimbo will chime in. Looks to me from the description like the nodeserver changes the reporting URLs of the tag(s) to the nodeserver:

Quote

This nodeserver starts a background process which implements a minimal REST server to handle data coming from the tag manager. All communication from the tag manager to the REST server is on the local network, so no port forwarding is necessary.

The Tag Manager node created in the ISY has a "Monitor Tags" option, which by default is disabled in case you have multiple ISY's. It should only be enabled on the ISY that is on the same LAN as the Tag Manger. When this option is enabled, the nodeserver updates all the Tag URL's so any updates are pushed to the REST server.

The authorization for communicating with your tag manager account handled by OAuth2 so no passwords are necessary. When the nodeserver is started up for the first time you will be asked to give permission.

 

[Jimbo.Automates]

Yes, the Nodeserver tells the local hub to push changes directly to the nodeserver, but as @mrbill mentioned, he did see issues when their servers had problems.    So sadly, it does not seem to be entirely local, but much faster and more reliable than IFTTT.

 

[MrBill]

Agreed, their magic is definitely server side.  We don't do it often so we forget but you also need to grant access to the node server on the wireless tags website:

One thing that has always bothered me about this arrangement is that if a hacker took control of of the wireless tags cloud server they have access to make external http/s calls from ALL of wirelesstags customers locations... in other words we are trusting the tag manager to have http/s access on our local network, and you can't block gateway access because the tag manager needs to be able to access wireless tags cloud server.  Bottom line: a smart hacker could deploy a decent sized botnet.  I really wish there was a convenient competing product that didn't need external internet access.

[UD2)17rrh]

Thanks so much for all of these helpful and informative replies.  I will definitely move in the direction of Polygot/Polisy.  Just need to do some reading now.

[UD2)17rrh]

On the Polygot store I don't see the wireless tag node server?

[MrBill]

12 hours ago, UD2)17rrh said:

On the Polygot store I don't see the wireless tag node server?

The exact name is WirelessTag, near the bottom of the list...  on github: https://github.com/jimboca/udi-wirelesstag-poly

 

[apostolakisl]

20 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Yes, the Nodeserver tells the local hub to push changes directly to the nodeserver, but as @mrbill mentioned, he did see issues when their servers had problems.    So sadly, it does not seem to be entirely local, but much faster and more reliable than IFTTT.

 

OK, seriously, I thought I was being silly when I said that this is what would have to happen for it to be local.  So what happens if the wireless tag and polyglot are on different vlan's or all together different networks?

[Jimbo.Automates]

56 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

OK, seriously, I thought I was being silly when I said that this is what would have to happen for it to be local.  So what happens if the wireless tag and polyglot are on different vlan's or all together different networks?

As long as the tag manager can see the polyglot machine there is no issue. If the vlans or networks have restrictions then you will need to open the port to the polyglot machine.

13 hours ago, UD2)17rrh said:

On the Polygot store I don't see the wireless tag node server?

You are looking at the local polyglot store, right?  It's not available on PGC.

[apostolakisl]

31 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

As long as the tag manager can see the polyglot machine there is no issue. If the vlans or networks have restrictions then you will need to open the port to the polyglot machine.

You are looking at the local polyglot store, right?  It's not available on PGC.

Hmm.  I'm confused here.  The tag manager (TM) reports directly to Wireless Tag server, that is obvious and simple.  But you are saying that polyglot reports to the WT server the address of Polyglot.  But what does WT server report to the TM about polyglot?  Both the WAN and LAN address and a port?  And it automatically goes WAN/port number when the two aren't on the same WAN address?  And if they are on different VLAN's within the same LAN, seems like it would not be possible to communicate at all.

[Jimbo.Automates]

14 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Hmm.  I'm confused here.  The tag manager (TM) reports directly to Wireless Tag server, that is obvious and simple.  But you are saying that polyglot reports to the WT server the address of Polyglot.  But what does WT server report to the TM?  Both the WAN and LAN address and a port?  And it automatically goes WAN/port number when the two aren't on the same WAN address?  And if they are on different VLAN's within the same LAN, seems like it would not be possible to communicate at all.

Basically, the Nodeserver tells the Tag Manager it's local IP address and port on startup so the tag manager can tell the nodeserver about all tag changes as they come thru.  So, beyond that, it's up to you to configure your network to allow that to work.