ISY flooded with X10 status requests

[TexMike]

I noticed my ISY TX/RX light blinking constantly and checked the event log to find multiple X10 status requests per second (see below). Any idea what could be causing this? I only have a couple of X10 hardwired switches remaining in my configuration since I've almost fully migrated to Z-Wave. I switched the little slider switch off on those, but I'm not sure if that fully removes power. I've never used house code J. I assume it's something generating noise that's interpreted as a X10 status request, but no idea what it could be.

Thanks, Mike

Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:33 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:34 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:34 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:34 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:34 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:35 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:36 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:36 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:37 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:37 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:37 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:37 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:38 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:39 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:39 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:40 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:40 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:41 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:41 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:41 PM : [X10-RX      ] 02 52 FF 80 
Sat 10/23/2021 10:52:41 PM : [         X10]       J/Status Request (10)

[Brian H]

On the two wire X10 dimmer wall switches. The slider switch disconnects the line power into the switch. So you can safely change a burned out bulb. As they get power through the load.

Do you have any X10 repeater between the two incoming power lines? They have been known to see the end of an Insteon message as a bogus X10 message and resend it. If you have one. I would try disconnecting it as a test.

J Status Request is all data bits in an X10 message as a 1. X10 message 11111111.  It maybe noise as you thought. You may want to go around and start disconnecting things. Like phone and other rechargeable device chargers. Electronic devices. Computing equipment, sound equipment and see if anything changes.

In the Event Viewer in Level 3. You maybe able to see the changes as you test with disconnecting things.

Do you have a Smart Electric Meter? I did see one communications protocol reported the cause X10 issues.

[mmb]

I had exactly the same problem.  X10s would appear in the log by the thousands with the same device ID you're seeing.

Before investigating too much, try moving the ISY to a new location and away from a noisy device that may be causing the X10s.  In my case I moved the ISY from my small server room to my office about 25 ft away.

I'm not 100% sure but the X10 messages coincided with installation of a new large battery backup UPS in the server room.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, mmb said:

I had exactly the same problem.  X10s would appear in the log by the thousands with the same device ID you're seeing.

Before investigating too much, try moving the ISY to a new location and away from a noisy device that may be causing the X10s.  In my case I moved the ISY from my small server room to my office about 25 ft away.

I'm not 100% sure but the X10 messages coincided with installation of a new large battery backup UPS in the server room.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07XNXZCGY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/Tamicy-Pieces-Ferrite-Suppressor-Diameter/dp/B08BPHCXR3/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Clip-on+Ferrite+Ring+Core&qid=1635098472&qsid=138-2737271-5070552&sr=8-3&sres=B07ZQZQ5BQ%2CB07CWCSNW9%2CB08BPHCXR3%2CB088LNB2DT%2CB08T67QRJC%2CB08H88PZLS%2CB095H36PXK%2CB08BPGGN3T%2CB085FRZ9JY%2CB07V7DGZ5V%2CB01E6PLXZ0%2CB072559VZ4%2CB07YJYQT6N%2CB08B4QNV8C%2CB07YKD5XHW%2CB07Y7ZB5DY

 

 

[TexMike]

I think it's the recently installed smart electric meter, I can't find any other cause and it seems to have started when the electric company installed the smart meter. I guess the only fix is to remove the PLM and only use Z-Wave.

[Brian H]

Smart Meter communications.

May possibly be it but I have only seen one brand meters communications protocol. Cause the issue. A majority of them.  Where not reported as the causing  issues.

Any X10 RF remotes and transceivers in the home?

[TexMike]

As part of troubleshooting, I removed the batteries from the old remotes and motion sensors. The only X-10 modules remaining are two hardwired switches.

[MrBill]

I would try turning off huge chunks of breakers in your panel and then rechecking.  I tend to start with half, then the other half.  then half of whichever group got rid of the noise... then half of that group..and so on... until I get down to a single breaker causing the issue.   I know which breaker I have to leave on to keep the ISY and the network up, that's the only one I don't flip off during the process.

 

[whywork]

Thread Hijack:

Pet peeve:  URL to product without product name or description

While poster is no doubt, trying to be helpful, there are inherent problems.

A year from now, someone may have the same problem - click on the link and get 404.  Useful information has been lost. What was it? What solved the problem?

Product name and/or description is helpful

Rant:

URL for un-named product in post above lead to Amazon CANADA (USA's northern friend) site.  I unfortunately used my phone to view, and was prompted to set my amazon app to Canada.   Hours later, it took me more than five minutes of searching in the app, to reset to my home USA for search results.

My OCD is showing

 

[Roger H]

I also have had the same issue for the past two summers. The ISY log shows thousands of what it thinks are X10 status requests for house code J. And I have no X10 devices at all, only Insteon. In my case the log entries start happening in early June and continue all summer until mid October. Then they stop completely. I see no "X10" entries all winter long. I also have a smart meter, and when this starts happening again next summer I plan to call the power company to talk about it.

[MrBill]

X-10 House code J is 1 1 1 1

Status Request is also 1 1 1 1

So it makes some sense that noise could produce house code J status requests.  However if X-10 is properly implemented it would be hard to get the start code repetitively in noise, and the fact that each X10 transmission must be received twice to be considered valid.

more information on the Physical Layer of the protocol can be found in the wikipedia article.

[hart2hart]

I also have had the same issue for the past two summers. The ISY log shows thousands of what it thinks are X10 status requests for house code J. And I have no X10 devices at all, only Insteon. In my case the log entries start happening in early June and continue all summer until mid October. Then they stop completely. I see no "X10" entries all winter long. I also have a smart meter, and when this starts happening again next summer I plan to call the power company to talk about it.

What’s running only at that time of year? Irrigation for example?

[Roger H]

2 hours ago, hart2hart said:

What’s running only at that time of year? Irrigation for example?

Based on the information provided by MrBill (and from reading the wikipedia article) I would agree that the problem is not noise. As to what could be running only at that time of year, I have no real idea. But I am convinced that the signals are coming from outside the house, because I have a whole house generator and I used it to conduct an experiment. Once last summer when the event viewer was showing that many of these signals were being received (even as many as two per second) I went to the transfer switch and cut off power to the house. The generator came on and restored power, and after everything had rebooted I restarted the event viewer and there were none of these X10 signals at all. I waited about half an hour and during that time the only events were the normal traffic from my own (Insteon) devices. I then went back to the transfer switch and restored utility power to the house. The generator shut down and immediately I began seeing that once again I was being flooded with these supposed X10 signals. So as I mentioned before, when these things start up again next summer I am going to call the power company. I only hope that I will be able to speak to someone who knows what I am talking about.

[MrBill]

14 hours ago, Roger H said:

But I am convinced that the signals are coming from outside the house

That may very well be true, and the power company may not know anything about it.

X10 can leak from one house to another.  Most X10 devices put out lower levels of PLC signals, but there are workaround/exceptions.  My prior residence was a lakeside house, I also owned the 2nd tier house directly across the street.  Leviton at the time produced Model: hca02-10e 2 phase x10 Coupler/Repeater which was a phase coupler and amplifier, I had one installed in my main breaker panel. It boosted the signal so well that I could use X-10 across the street and control it from my house.  Both houses served by the same power company transformer.

In another aspect of life I was also and X-10 consultant and ran into a few places where customers needed to install Leviton's 6284, 200 Amp Noise Blocker w/Split Or 3-Phase Coupler to keep out noise and/or neighbors X10 signals.  Leviton doesn't make the product anymore but it seems there are a few available here and there as I google this morning.  WARNING: Generally, this is NOT a DIY install in most cases. 6284 must be installed over the neutral conductor, meaning neutral must be taken loose from the panel--In most cases the only way to kill power is to have the meter pulled by the utility.  Your case might be different depending on where your transfer switch is.

You might also create programs so that you can find the exact moment these start up next spring.  Something like:

AAA x10test.0 - [ID 01D0][Parent 0001]

If
        X10 'J/Status Request (10)' is Received
 
Then
        Run Program 'AAA x10test.1' (Then Path)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

AAA x10test.1 - [ID 01D1][Parent 0001][Not Enabled]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Disable Program 'AAA x10test.0'
        Resource 'ISYNotification.aaa-push test'
        Wait  1 hour
        Enable Program 'AAA x10test.0'
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

It's two programs so that we can limit the notifications to 1 per hour, without doing it this way you could end up filling the ISY queues to the point it simply reboots because there are hundreds of notifications (the first program would run EVERYTIME the ISY receives the hail request, at 2 per second the notifications can't go out that fast).

Knowing the exact time these things start up may help you pinpoint what's sending it, especially if it's something you yourself are switching on in the spring.

[Roger H]

On 10/29/2021 at 10:47 AM, MrBill said:

You might also create programs so that you can find the exact moment these start up next spring.  Something like:

AAA x10test.0 - [ID 01D0][Parent 0001]

If
        X10 'J/Status Request (10)' is Received
 
Then
        Run Program 'AAA x10test.1' (Then Path)
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

AAA x10test.1 - [ID 01D1][Parent 0001][Not Enabled]

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
        Disable Program 'AAA x10test.0'
        Resource 'ISYNotification.aaa-push test'
        Wait  1 hour
        Enable Program 'AAA x10test.0'
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

It's two programs so that we can limit the notifications to 1 per hour, without doing it this way you could end up filling the ISY queues to the point it simply reboots because there are hundreds of notifications (the first program would run EVERYTIME the ISY receives the hail request, at 2 per second the notifications can't go out that fast).

Knowing the exact time these things start up may help you pinpoint what's sending it, especially if it's something you yourself are switching on in the spring.

Thanks. I will implement the program and await the start up.