Is RadioRA3 the Ultimate Replacement For Insteon?

[lilyoyo1]

33 minutes ago, asbril said:

100 % of my switches, lights, fans, speakers are part of my ISY set-up. Not all my curtains (yet).

BTW this discussion is interesting but clearly RA3 is beyond the grasp of low-techies like me. So I'm staying with Zwave

 

You'd be surrised how easy it is. If I had my way, all lights in a home would be dimmable and automated (all of mine are). N

[asbril]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You'd be surrised how easy it is. If I had my way, all lights in a home would be dimmable and automated (all of mine are). N

But you rxplained that it requires  a professiomal  installer and programmer....  That takes the fun out of it

[DAlter01]

11 minutes ago, asbril said:

But you rxplained that it requires  a professiomal  installer and programmer....  That takes the fun out of it

You don't need to be a professional, but you need to take the class.  You, me, my cousin, anyone can take the class.  It is their way to keep someone who hasn't made any attempt to learn how to set up the equipment from soiling their reputation with uninformed statements about their equipment.  Plus, it certainly helps their support staff with having people not ask basic questions like ...... Do I hook up the white wire to the red wire........, you get the idea.

Edited November 30, 2021 by DAlter01
typo

[simplextech]

4 hours ago, asbril said:

BTW this discussion is interesting but clearly RA3 is beyond the grasp of low-techies like me. So I'm staying with Zwave

I really think you're selling yourself short.  After the test is out of the way setting up Lutron is actually quite easy.

 

[asbril]

7 hours ago, simplextech said:

I really think you're selling yourself short.  After the test is out of the way setting up Lutron is actually quite easy.

 

Thanks @simplextech, @DAlter01, @lilyoyo1 for your confidence in my abilities  . I am really interested in RA3, but only if I can integrate it in my ISY. Is that realistically coming ?

Edited November 30, 2021 by asbril

[Goose66]

I would gladly pursue a nodeserver using the Lutron's LEAP API if I can get some help getting the hardware to test with. Let me do some research and I will put together a proposal.

[Jimbo.Automates]

14 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

I would gladly pursue a nodeserver using the Lutron's LEAP API if I can get some help getting the hardware to test with. Let me do some research and I will put together a proposal.

It already exists, and I've updated it and use it every day for my blinds:  https://github.com/jimboca/udi-poly-lutroncaseta

If @timekillerj who is the original author doesn't move it to PG3 then I will or @simplextech can as well.

 

[asbril]

22 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

It already exists, and I've updated it and use it every day for my blinds:  https://github.com/jimboca/udi-poly-lutroncaseta

If @timekillerj who is the original author doesn't move it to PG3 then I will or @simplextech can as well.

 

Interesting. What setup is needed ?  Do I just get RA3 switches and install the nodeserver, or do I need a Lutron "bridge" as well ?

[Jimbo.Automates]

Interesting. What setup is needed ?  Do I just get RA3 switches and install the nodeserver, or do I need a Lutron "bridge" as well ?

You need a bridge, I have the pro version but not sure if that's necessary. I'll need to research again, been a while since I looked at it. The generation and usage of the authorization key could use improvement but it works. But the original author has not accepted my pull requests on the PG2 version which makes the system work much better. Also, I have no switches so I can't say for sure they would work, but wouldn't be a big deal to add. I'm considering switching to lutron in our little lake house which is just starting a major remodel.


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Thanks @simplextech, @DAlter01, @lilyoyo1 for your confidence in my abilities  . I am really interested in RA3, but only if I can integrate it in my ISY. Is that realistically coming ?

You're welcome. The free class is worth taking even if you don't use it. Whether it's lutron, C4, Savant, or any other course, their training isn't just about installation and programming. The background information they provide can be carried over to other systems as well. 

For example lutron talks about wireless range and so forth and why they have you install things in a specific manner. This can open you up to understanding zwave better and why their range claims ends up causing more hassle than it's worth (it's also why I install stuff a certain way when I use zwave). 

It's free. All it costs you is time.

[asbril]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

It's free. All it costs you is time.

Do you have a link ?

[Goose66]

49 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

It already exists, and I've updated it and use it every day for my blinds:  https://github.com/jimboca/udi-poly-lutroncaseta

 

Is it local control (once it goes through the key pairing routine)?

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, asbril said:

Do you have a link ?

https://umslogin.lutron.com/identity/Account/loginhrd?signid=1541e610e922eb781378a42a0be59fa6&clientId=c5eb65f7-5f28-4123-b800-ea5398f23c92

[MrBill]

7 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

https://umslogin.lutron.com/identity/Account/loginhrd?signid=1541e610e922eb781378a42a0be59fa6&clientId=c5eb65f7-5f28-4123-b800-ea5398f23c92

That link doesn't work. 

Perhaps links to a portion of the site where sign-in is required.

[lilyoyo1]

 

 

https://www.lutron.com/en-US/Pages/LutronLCIOnline.aspx

Edited November 30, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[Michel Kohanim]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

It already exists, and I've updated it and use it every day for my blinds:  https://github.com/jimboca/udi-poly-lutroncaseta

@Jimbo, does it support Control as well as Status?

With kind regards,
Michel

[Jimbo.Automates]

37 minutes ago, Goose66 said:

Is it local control (once it goes through the key pairing routine)?

Yes. I've intended to to more testing by turning off internet to confirm it all still works, but haven't done it yet.

2 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Jimbo, does it support Control as well as Status?

With kind regards,
Michel

Yes, it should be simple to add if it currently does not, but without the hardware it may take a while to get working.  It can receive events from the remotes as well.

[lilyoyo1]

33 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Yes. I've intended to to more testing by turning off internet to confirm it all still works, but haven't done it yet.

Yes, it should be simple to add if it currently does not, but without the hardware it may take a while to get working.  It can receive events from the remotes as well.

The RA3 hardware releases Jan. 22. Some distributors may release sooner but all of mine has a date of 1/22

[bpwwer]

3 hours ago, Jimbo said:

It already exists, and I've updated it and use it every day for my blinds:  https://github.com/jimboca/udi-poly-lutroncaseta

If @timekillerj who is the original author doesn't move it to PG3 then I will or @simplextech can as well.

 

I've already ported it to PG3,  I'm just waiting to hear from the author about taking it from me.

I just finished the Lutron RA2 and RA3 classes, It took a couple of days to go through all of them.  The RA3 test is a bit of pain because of all the "where would you click to do xyz in the software" questions.  They're not hard, just repetitive.

[dbwarner5]

A low to mid range "Prosumer" here. Grew into a very large integrated system over many years starting with X10. Have been with ISY for many years. Love the flexibility, power, reliability, customizability, Alexa and now Polyglots that allow even broader integration.

Have a friend that is evaluating adding home automation and has come to me for advice. He would eventually fall into a prosumer group. For all the reasons I love my ISY / Polisy, after reading this forum, I am at a loss as to what to say to him.

a) go with Polisy and Insteon --> nothing is available, and dying technology? 

b) go with a Polisy and utilize (bad) z-wave switches in a limited way and hope for Insteon to revive?

c) go with a Polisy and buy the consumer RA2 Lutron and hub and hope for full future integration into Polisy per @Jimbo

I assume that you can use a Polisy w/o a PLM for z-wave and Lutron consumer products?

So w/o Insteon products available, and mixed reviews on a full house of z-wave and unknown integration for Lutron to Polisy, there doesn't seem to be logical path forward to recommend the use of a Polisy?

Any thoughts from all the experts on this forum? As stated much earlier in this forum the Prosumer is getting the squeeze out here and a great product like the ISY / Polisy will get lost due to lack of affordable / reliable devices to connect to?  

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks!

[lilyoyo1]

37 minutes ago, dbwarner5 said:

A low to mid range "Prosumer" here. Grew into a very large integrated system over many years starting with X10. Have been with ISY for many years. Love the flexibility, power, reliability, customizability, Alexa and now Polyglots that allow even broader integration.

Have a friend that is evaluating adding home automation and has come to me for advice. He would eventually fall into a prosumer group. For all the reasons I love my ISY / Polisy, after reading this forum, I am at a loss as to what to say to him.

a) go with Polisy and Insteon --> nothing is available, and dying technology? 

b) go with a Polisy and utilize (bad) z-wave switches in a limited way and hope for Insteon to revive?

c) go with a Polisy and buy the consumer RA2 Lutron and hub and hope for full future integration into Polisy per @Jimbo

I assume that you can use a Polisy w/o a PLM for z-wave and Lutron consumer products?

So w/o Insteon products available, and mixed reviews on a full house of z-wave and unknown integration for Lutron to Polisy, there doesn't seem to be logical path forward to recommend the use of a Polisy?

Any thoughts from all the experts on this forum? As stated much earlier in this forum the Prosumer is getting the squeeze out here and a great product like the ISY / Polisy will get lost due to lack of affordable / reliable devices to connect to?  

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks!

The best system depends on his needs and wants. What does he value? Looks, performance, flexibility, etc. Budgetary concerns also comes into play as does investment in time. Those questions will help guide in towards making the right choice.

I'd tell him to hold off for now. With everything being in short supply, it'll be better for him to wait and see how things play out. He doesn't want to jump too quickly only for stuff to be out of stock or overpaying trying to get devices from different sources. 

IMO, insteon is a non starter even if it makes a come back since UDI has made it clear they've washed their hands of them. At this juncture, I wouldn't use their old product line anyway. My focus would be on product lines that are made specifically for led bulbs (allows low end trim to be set) whether it's zwave, lutron, or something else. 

If finances aren't an issue, I'd shoot for Ra3 if he can wait. Ra2 if he really needs to do something now. He would not need a PLM at all unless he was using insteon. 

I choose ra3 (if he's willing to take a wait and see approach) only because Ra3 looks much much better than ra2 switches and it's Lutron's future even if the future is not arriving for the next couple of years overall. Once he's actually ready to buy, he can use what's available in regards to Ra2, Ra3, Or something else. 

[DAlter01]

4 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The best system depends on his needs and wants. What does he value? Looks, performance, flexibility, etc. Budgetary concerns also comes into play as does investment in time. Those questions will help guide in towards making the right choice.

I'd tell him to hold off for now. With everything being in short supply, it'll be better for him to wait and see how things play out. He doesn't want to jump too quickly only for stuff to be out of stock or overpaying trying to get devices from different sources. 

IMO, insteon is a non starter even if it makes a come back since UDI has made it clear they've washed their hands of them. At this juncture, I wouldn't use their old product line anyway. My focus would be on product lines that are made specifically for led bulbs (allows low end trim to be set) whether it's zwave, lutron, or something else. 

If finances aren't an issue, I'd shoot for Ra3 if he can wait. Ra2 if he really needs to do something now. He would not need a PLM at all unless he was using insteon. 

I choose ra3 (if he's willing to take a wait and see approach) only because Ra3 looks much much better than ra2 switches and it's Lutron's future even if the future is not arriving for the next couple of years overall. Once he's actually ready to buy, he can use what's available in regards to Ra2, Ra3, Or something else. 

I second that opinion.  I wouldn't touch Insteon right now and I would not use the Nokia line for a whole home install even if the product became "instantly" in stock.  I'd want to see that it was successful and accepted by the marketplace, stock was easily available, and of course, there would need to be a way to integrate it which is a question without an answer right now.  From what I've seen of the Ra3 product line and Lutron's history, I'd wait on it and then spend the extra money and go with Ra3 and know that I had a system with a long product life cycle, would be supported by a manufacturer that will be in business, and is a recognized name by an eventual home buyer (assuming some resale consideration is considered).  

[dbwarner5]

@DAlter01 @lilyoyo  Thanks for your replies.

What isn't clear to me about RA3 and your suggestion from the posts:

-Consumer Caseta products are only RA2, so it only an assumption that they will move to RA3?

-Pro level lutron RA3 devices would be available after the online course but at retail prices after Jan22?

-Controller for each of the above? Polisy with unknown integration capabilities at this point? 

Have I summarized that correctly? if so, then wait is clearly the path since none of the above are known at this time.

[lilyoyo1]

23 minutes ago, dbwarner5 said:

@DAlter01 @lilyoyo  Thanks for your replies.

What isn't clear to me about RA3 and your suggestion from the posts:

-Consumer Caseta products are only RA2, so it only an assumption that they will move to RA3?

-Pro level lutron RA3 devices would be available after the online course but at retail prices after Jan22?

-Controller for each of the above? Polisy with unknown integration capabilities at this point? 

Have I summarized that correctly? if so, then wait is clearly the path since none of the above are known at this time.

Caseta is not ra2 and there is no upgrade to anything else from it. 

For Caseta, you need the caseta hub. Ditto for ra2 and 3 (though Ra3 hub can control Ra2).

You need the course to unlock the software. Unless you're a dealer or know someone willing to sell them to you, you'll pay full price for devices

Polisy works with ra2 currently but not ra3 and it is unknown when. 

 

[dbwarner5]

9 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Caseta is not ra2 and there is no upgrade to anything else from it. 

For Caseta, you need the caseta hub. Ditto for ra2 and 3 (though Ra3 hub can control Ra2).

You need the course to unlock the software. Unless you're a dealer or know someone willing to sell them to you, you'll pay full price for devices

Polisy works with ra2 currently but not ra3 and it is unknown when. 

 

ahhh.. a light bulb just came on.. no pun intended..  

I keep looking at the PG Caseta and see its only for blinds so could not understand all the dialogue about integration of lutron. But I just found the ST-RA2Select and ST-RadioRA2 NSs (maybe they should start with Lutron?) That helps enormously, combined with the lutron links.. 

Sound like my current path forward (for myself as Insteon fails) and for my friend will be RadioRA2 products / hub and NS. which can be backward integrated as time moves forward with RA3 hub and switches and a "future NS".

Thanks!!!