Is Insteon dead?

[barkster]

I haven't messed with my isy994 in years just chugs along.  I wanted to add a dimmer switch to my lights and went searching and can't find any parts online anywhere, all out of stock.  Even here the ISY994 is out of stock.  I pretty much only have a few switches now is it time to replace with something else?

[Techman]

It's possible that the dimmers may be back in stock about February.

The Polisy is the replacement for the ISY. You may want to take a look at Z-wave devices. The ISY and Polisy both support Z-wave

 

[barkster]

thanks, I am looking into converting to zwave.

[matapan]

While the prevailing sentiment now seems to be a move towards Z-Wave, I would caution you on your approach with respect to migrating to Z-Wave:

As many others have suggested here in various ways, it's imperative to build out your Z-Wave network starting with the devices closest to the ISY and work your way further away from the device. That is if you're considering a slow migration. Like dual band Insteon, the reliability of your install is highly dependent in the number of devices deployed across your space.

My first Insteon installation was made up of mostly single band devices with access points and a few dual band devices installed. The integrity of the installation had a lot to be desired, with virtual multiway switches not syncing with each other and erratic behaviors. It was awful in hindsight, made worse by the reliability issues people talk about.

My current Insteon installation is comprised of mostly dual band devices with a few single band devices sprinkled in. The reliability of this installation is significantly better than the first one. The takeaway for me is that dual band Insteon is essentially like Z-Wave, working predominantly across wireless signals rather than powerline. I'm sure this isn't completely true, but my current installation has so many dual band devices evenly distributed across the space and it works so much better. It's hard to imagine how one would get a super reliable Z-Wave install without going all out and replacing your Insteon devices with Z-Wave, or doing a gradual migration starting from the ISY out.

[barkster]

thanks, that is why I am looking for alternative I have had reliable system for over 10 years untill I removed about 10 switches and now it isn't.  I only need about 4-5 switches now and looking to go to wifi switches or something and use my home assistant.  I may end up keeping my insteon and just try and add more switches and access points even though I don't need them

[upstatemike]

24 minutes ago, barkster said:

thanks, that is why I am looking for alternative I have had reliable system for over 10 years untill I removed about 10 switches and now it isn't.  I only need about 4-5 switches now and looking to go to wifi switches or something and use my home assistant.  I may end up keeping my insteon and just try and add more switches and access points even though I don't need them

Curious since you are thinking of using Wi-Fi switches and I have never tried any; how are they at updating the ISY on local control? Can you reliably maintain the device state table, trigger programs, and set up virtual multi-way switch groups using Wi-Fi switches? Can they do this on a LAN or will you need an Internet connection involved for manual operation to be detected?

[matapan]

I used to think that Insteon was just completely unreliable because the build quality was highly suspect. After completing my current install and using for a while, I've changed my opinion somewhat. Coupled with ISY and in particular the ability to set retries for commands that get lost on n-way switch circuits. I think it's much better than my old install for the fact that it's dual band and Smarthome seems to have improved product quality somewhat. The jury is still out for me as far as reliability is concerned. But armed with the ability to repair my PLM, I think I'm good for a while. Most of the devices in my current install are dual band devices where my previous installation had more single band devices and a few dual band ones.

I tried Wifi plugs in the form of Wemo modules and Smartthings; if your Wifi coverage is good, they seem to work okay. I don't think you get the mesh networking aspect of signals being repeated between devices that you do with Insteon or ZWave. Someone here can correct me if I'm wrong. But I've had a couple of Wemo plugs have problems communicating back to the Smartthings hub, presumably because of range issues and interference where the plug was located.

I'm thinking that if you have enough ZWave devices to provide adequate coverage, that may be a good alternative. The number of manufacturers making ZWave devices is comforting from an installation lifecycle perspective. My personal issue with ZWave devices is that they generally don't look good, industrial design speaking. The newest Nokia/Smartlabs offering look nicely designed, and so does Lutron's offerings. ZWave devices seem to fall into two categories: really generic and plain, or a device that has a very sophmoric, toylike design. There's no elegance to these devices.

If I was looking to replace my Insteon installation, I would be looking at Lutron. I've never seen a Lutron installation with glitchy issues. Their dimmers work great and any questions about reliability have never come up. They look good and purposeful. I've seen a total of 6 Lutron installations. A small sample size for sure, but no one who has one of the installations has ever chatted with me about how to get around this problem or that problem. It costs more for sure. But you get the assurance of a well engineered, reliable product. There's a separate discussion on this site about questions some people have with the latest wireless offering from Lutron. I'm personally just waiting to see how well these wireless retrofit systems work in practice.

[barkster]

i liked lutron but they don't have an inwall plug, ugh

 

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, barkster said:

i liked lutron but they don't have an inwall plug, ugh

 

I never use in wall receptacles since my X10 days. Too much wiring when you move or they burn out. Never had a plug-in burnout...well except the X10 appliance module I tried to control my 2 HP dust collector motor with. LOL

[lilyoyo1]

6 hours ago, barkster said:

i liked lutron but they don't have an inwall plug, ugh

 

The good thing is if Polisy ends up supporting Ra3 (it currently supports Ra2), you'd be able to use your existing receptacles as well which would make it a moot point

Edited January 13, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[ermesb]

You may want to see what happens with the Matter protocol, which is nearing final. As I understnd it, it is essentially the latest version of zigbee. Many major players in the industry will be supporting it.

[upstatemike]

25 minutes ago, ermesb said:

You may want to see what happens with the Matter protocol, which is nearing final. As I understnd it, it is essentially the latest version of zigbee. Many major players in the industry will be supporting it.

Just be realistic on the timeline. Once the protocol is defined manufaturers need to design build and distribute products which will take awhile considering the supply chain issues. Then consumers need to evaluate and purchase enough product to create a demand to establish it as a successful standard. How first gen products measure up for things like direct association, keypads, style, reliability, open API, etc. will affect this. Then hub and software manufacturers need to start adding support to make it worth considering as a replacement for what folks are currently using.

At that point Matter could go on the list as a possible replacement for Insteon or whatever you want to move away from if there is enough variety of Matter devices available. I don't see us reaching that stage before mid 2023.

[lilyoyo1]

32 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Just be realistic on the timeline. Once the protocol is defined manufaturers need to design build and distribute products which will take awhile considering the supply chain issues. Then consumers need to evaluate and purchase enough product to create a demand to establish it as a successful standard. How first gen products measure up for things like direct association, keypads, style, reliability, open API, etc. will affect this. Then hub and software manufacturers need to start adding support to make it worth considering as a replacement for what folks are currently using.

At that point Matter could go on the list as a possible replacement for Insteon or whatever you want to move away from if there is enough variety of Matter devices available. I don't see us reaching that stage before mid 2023.

For once I agree. The fact that the avg. consumer doesnt even know about matter speaks volumes as well.