Zwave Scene

[asbril]

I would like to create a Scene (I am all Zwave) that does the following.

If motion sensor X is ON then light Y is ON.

By itself this is easy, and when sensor goes OFF, light will go OFF as well.

HOWEVER, if light Y is already ON, then I do not want this light to go OFF when the sensor goes OFF.

Is this possible in a scene, or should I do this in a program ?

[randyth]

I vote do it in a program. I don't believe scenes were designed for such logic.

[mmb]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Is this possible in a scene, or should I do this in a program ?

The magic words If Then Else are your clue it should be a Program.

Edited January 13, 2022 by mmb

[kzboray]

@asbril I don't have much experience with z-wave, but as for how to do what you want with an Insteon sensor and light switch I would use two programs. In this example the sensor turns on the light when active and the light goes off after 5 minutes. You can vary the time to suit your needs.

First program:

IF

      motion sensor is active

Then

      Turn on light
      Run "light timer" THEN PATH

Else

     Turn off light

 

Second program:

IF

Then

      Wait 5 minutes
      Run the first program

ELSE

 

[matapan]

You could always check to see if the switch controlling the load was turned on and set a variable to indicate that the switch was manually turned on and set the variable to zero and enable the countdown program for turning off the light by motion sensor when it is manually turned off.

When the motion sensor is activated, you can check the value of the variable to see if the switch was turned on manually. If it was, then you can disable the countdown program.

I think that is what you're asking for.

[lilyoyo1]

8 hours ago, matapan said:

You could always check to see if the switch controlling the load was turned on and set a variable to indicate that the switch was manually turned on and set the variable to zero and enable the countdown program for turning off the light by motion sensor when it is manually turned off.

When the motion sensor is activated, you can check the value of the variable to see if the switch was turned on manually. If it was, then you can disable the countdown program.

I think that is what you're asking for.

I'd actually use status as the light could be manually controlled as you say but also via app and voice which wouldn't be captured

[lilyoyo1]

14 hours ago, asbril said:

I would like to create a Scene (I am all Zwave) that does the following.

If motion sensor X is ON then light Y is ON.

By itself this is easy, and when sensor goes OFF, light will go OFF as well.

HOWEVER, if light Y is already ON, then I do not want this light to go OFF when the sensor goes OFF.

Is this possible in a scene, or should I do this in a program ?

What kind of room is this in? What ways do you control the light? 

[asbril]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

What kind of room is this in? What ways do you control the light? 

In our master bathroom we have 3 lights (front, middle, back).

I currently have a program :

IF

Front is ON

THEN

Middle ON

Back ON

ELSE

Middle OFF

Back OFF

Michel pointed out to me that a Scene would be better than a program,  but I have never used Scenes.

I created a scene that works in my Administrative Console, but not when I manually click on Front (only sets Front ON)

Edited January 14, 2022 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

52 minutes ago, asbril said:

In our master bathroom we have 3 lights (front, middle, back).

I currently have a program :

IF

Front is ON

THEN

Middle ON

Back ON

ELSE

Middle OFF

Back OFF

Michel pointed out to me that a Scene would be better than a program,  but I have never used Scenes.

I created a scene that works in my Administrative Console, but not when I manually click on Front (only sets Front ON)

Scenes are trickier with Zwave. Unless the controller is scene capable, I've found it not to work the way insteon does. This may be what's happening in your case. Did you update the front light controller node as well to tell the other devices what to do?

If that doesn't work, you could use the program to trigger the scene itself which would be more efficient. 

What I'd do is take a play from @matapan advice and use a variable. Trigger the lights on/off with your program (whether you use the app or voice). Add a line to your program that changes the variable to 1 whenever the program runs. 

There's multiple ways to run your motion program. I separate my off program from my on program. If you do your motion program this way, you could say 

If

motion variable is zero and

(motion is switched off and not switched on)

Then

Wait x minutes and turn scene off

 

 

[asbril]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Scenes are trickier with Zwave. Unless the controller is scene capable, I've found it not to work the way insteon does. This may be what's happening in your case. Did you update the front light controller node as well to tell the other devices what to do?

If that doesn't work, you could use the program to trigger the scene itself which would be more efficient. 

What I'd do is take a play from @matapan advice and use a variable. Trigger the lights on/off with your program (whether you use the app or voice). Add a line to your program that changes the variable to 1 whenever the program runs. 

There's multiple ways to run your motion program. I separate my off program from my on program. If you do your motion program this way, you could say 

If

motion variable is zero and

(motion is switched off and not switched on)

Then

Wait x minutes and turn scene off

 

 

The switch that I want to use as Controller has 2 Scene nodes. Do I use one of these 2 scene nodes instead of the main node ?

Do I  change the Controller node as Default or do I change it to Command (with ON and 100%) and what about the Responders ?

Thanks as always

[lilyoyo1]

8 minutes ago, asbril said:

The switch that I want to use as Controller has 2 Scene nodes. Do I use one of these 2 scene nodes instead of the main node ?

Do I  change the Controller node as Default or do I change it to Command (with ON and 100%) and what about the Responders ?

Thanks as always

The responders should be set to command and on (whatever percentage you want). The controller shouldn't have any options other than default. If it's giving you command options then you can try it to see if that works. The scene nodes shouldn't be necessary but it depends on what the mfg. says they are for

[lilyoyo1]

I forgot to add in my previous post to make sure you have a program that resets your variable to zero when you turn the lights off either manually or remotely

[asbril]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The responders should be set to command and on (whatever percentage you want). The controller shouldn't have any options other than default. If it's giving you command options then you can try it to see if that works. The scene nodes shouldn't be necessary but it depends on what the mfg. says they are for

I am still working on getting the Scene working. I have succeeded in getting the Scene to ON (with physical on switch) by using the scene 001 as Controller (and using the Command for responders), but I have not figured out yet to turn OFF with physical touch on switch.

To turn ONn  I double click, but nothing happens when double clicking on off. I have even tried to create another scene for Off by using scene 002 as controller and setting responders to Command Off, with double or triple clicking..... but I don't get it to turn Off.

As Michel pointed out to me, by using  a Scene instead of a program, the reaction time is faster, but I need to figure out the Off..........

[asbril]

I have no success so far with setting up a working Scene (I am all Zwave, no Insteon). Michel told me that Scenes work faster than programs with Zwave, so I am trying hard.

The devices that I want to use are are all Zwave Plus and Scene compatible.

I have been able to get a scene with the controller turning ON the other devices in the scene, but no luck with turning the devices OFF. Furthermore in that scene the controller only does the ON when I double click (with scene node 001)  which is not ideal with my absolutely-non-technical (or should I say tech-hating...) wife for sure not going to remember the double click.

So in short, has anyone had success setting scenes with Zwave ?

[lilyoyo1]

25 minutes ago, asbril said:

I have no success so far with setting up a working Scene (I am all Zwave, no Insteon). Michel told me that Scenes work faster than programs with Zwave, so I am trying hard.

The devices that I want to use are are all Zwave Plus and Scene compatible.

I have been able to get a scene with the controller turning ON the other devices in the scene, but no luck with turning the devices OFF. Furthermore in that scene the controller only does the ON when I double click (with scene node 001)  which is not ideal with my absolutely-non-technical (or should I say tech-hating...) wife for sure not going to remember the double click.

So in short, has anyone had success setting scenes with Zwave ?

What device is it

[asbril]

22 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

What device is it

GE/Jasco light Switches ZW+

[lilyoyo1]

45 minutes ago, asbril said:

GE/Jasco light Switches ZW+

Unfortunately their manual doesn't give much information outside of the limited parameters they allow. 

Post the options that your switch has under command

[asbril]

I will tomorrow . Thanks

[oberkc]

11 hours ago, asbril said:

So in short, has anyone had success setting scenes with Zwave ?

I have tried some experiments with Zwave devices and nodes, but have never successfully been able to create a z-wave scene (aka association).  While I have Zwave devices within the ISY scenes, the link "type" as shown in the scene definition is alway "default" and I have never seen a link type "z-wave basic" between any zwave devices or nodes that I have tried.

[mmb]

@oberkc

9 hours ago, oberkc said:

While I have Zwave devices within the ISY scenes, the link "type" as shown in the scene definition is always "default"

Fyi I'm testing Polisy and I see the same thing on my Zwave scene with only Zwave devices..

Do you also see Action as "default" too?

The Scene seems to work fine.

[oberkc]

1 hour ago, mmb said:

Do you also see Action as "default" too?

yes, the same on mine.  

While small, individual scenes work fine (mostly), larger scenes seem to be taking longer as z-wave becomes a larger part.  I can, and have, live with it but it makes me pause at the idea of a total transition to z-wave.

[mmb]

21 minutes ago, oberkc said:

yes, the same on mine.  

While small, individual scenes work fine (mostly), larger scenes seem to be taking longer as z-wave becomes a larger part.  I can, and have, live with it but it makes me pause at the idea of a total transition to z-wave.

@oberkc It's hard to beat Insteon for sure.

[asbril]

2 hours ago, mmb said:

@oberkc It's hard to beat Insteon for sure.

 

2 hours ago, oberkc said:

yes, the same on mine.  

While small, individual scenes work fine (mostly), larger scenes seem to be taking longer as z-wave becomes a larger part.  I can, and have, live with it but it makes me pause at the idea of a total transition to z-wave.

I understand and know that scenes work well with Insteon.  I am full Zwave with no Insteon and resolve my "associations" with programs. However I was told that (at least theoretically) Zwave scenes work faster than programs. In one test scene this was indeed the case with turning lights ON, but (1)  I did not achieve 'lights OFF  (2) Using a scene node in the ON scene meant  a double-click on the switch, which my wife would not like.

I still believe that theoretically scenes should work with Zwave, but more research is needed.

[mmb]

13 hours ago, asbril said:

 I did not achieve 'lights OFF  (2) Using a scene node in the ON scene meant  a double-click on the switch, which my wife would not like.

Odd, my test z-wave scene worked fine and my mixed Z-wave and Insteon also worked fine.

Maybe you have interference or something that's causing a problem.

[asbril]

2 hours ago, mmb said:

Odd, my test z-wave scene worked fine and my mixed Z-wave and Insteon also worked fine.

Maybe you have interference or something that's causing a problem.

How did you set the devices in the Scene ( default, Command, ON, OFF ?

Thanks