Insteon HUB (2245) cloud servers shut down

[arf1410]

To enable my ISY to control Insteon or X-10, I need a functional PLM device (so far, so good, knock on wood)... but if I get the z-wave dongle... will the ISY control Z-wave without a PLM?

[Athlon]

1 minute ago, arf1410 said:

To enable my ISY to control Insteon or X-10, I need a functional PLM device (so far, so good, knock on wood)... but if I get the z-wave dongle... will the ISY control Z-wave without a PLM?

Yes. 

[Brian H]

4 minutes ago, arf1410 said:

To enable my ISY to control Insteon or X-10, I need a functional PLM device (so far, so good, knock on wood)... but if I get the z-wave dongle... will the ISY control Z-wave without a PLM?

If you don't have a PLM. You can still do z-wave with added card. There are ISY994i models that are z-wave only and could use the software that didn't flag a no PLM found.

[andrew77]

23 minutes ago, Techman said:

The Smarthome/Insteon server only hosted the Insteon Hub. The server shutdown will have no effect on your system(s).

For now, your best bet is to go with Zwave 700 series devices. If you don't plan on upgrading to the Polisy then adding the 500 series Zwave board to you ISY would be the next best step if you want to add more devices to your current setup.

Thank you for the fast reply Techman. I have two questions.

I'm not familiar with Policy but just Googled it quickly.

Since Harmony has also discontinued their lines as far as the Harmony hub goes my whole house is quickly becoming obsolete?. Would the Polisy control all my A/V gear as well as the lighting?

 

You mentioned ZWave 500 switches. I see 700 series switches but nothing that is specifically labelled 500 series.

Can I assume if they arent 700 series they are 500 series?

If not is there a site I can go to find out which ones are 500 series?

Drew

 

[Techman]

The Zwave 700 series is the latest and best. It's backwards compatible with the 500 series devices. Aeotec.com and Getzooz.com/products have a large assortment of Zwave devices.

The Polisy is the next generation and will replace the ISY994

                   https://www.universal-devices.com/store/

The ISY and the Polisy are able to control some Wi-Fi enabled devices using the Network resource option on the ISY or Polisy

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, andrew77 said:

Thank you for the fast reply Techman. I have two questions.

I'm not familiar with Policy but just Googled it quickly.

Since Harmony has also discontinued their lines as far as the Harmony hub goes my whole house is quickly becoming obsolete?. Would the Polisy control all my A/V gear as well as the lighting?

 

You mentioned ZWave 500 switches. I see 700 series switches but nothing that is specifically labelled 500 series.

Can I assume if they arent 700 series they are 500 series?

If not is there a site I can go to find out which ones are 500 series?

Drew

 

In the zwave tips and tricks post, there are links that take you to 700 series devices

[sdean7855]

I have a small Insteon setup with hub and maybe 6 relays here and there buried in switch boxes.  I have the hex codes for all of them.

Is there yet a definitive place/forum to ask conversion to Home Assistant questions?

I have had a gremlin in my system (for two months now and never got around to trouble shooting it; predates Inseon going dark) that activates two exterior light relays, once at night, once during the day.  Is there somewhere that can help me with problem det?  I had nothing scheduled, but this has been happening.  I put in the one scheduled off allowed and that would shut off the night-time one..  This AM, while the lights were off, I disconnected power (though not Ethernet) to the hub, the power light went off....and I thought that would do until I could switch over to HA.  But this afternoon the lights came on again.  WTF?!  What could be commanding the relays or what repeating transient could be doing this? 

This is awkward, having everything lumped into one topic, thus my desire to find a better place to ask a pinpointed question and forum topic.

sigh.  Isn't this fun?

Thanks for help, in advance.

[Techman]

7 minutes ago, sdean7855 said:

I have a small Insteon setup with hub and maybe 6 relays here and there buried in switch boxes.  I have the hex codes for all of them.

Is there yet a definitive place/forum to ask conversion to Home Assistant questions?

I have had a gremlin in my system (for two months now and never got around to trouble shooting it; predates Inseon going dark) that activates two exterior light relays, once at night, once during the day.  Is there somewhere that can help me with problem det?  I had nothing scheduled, but this has been happening.  I put in the one scheduled off allowed and that would shut off the night-time one..  This AM, while the lights were off, I disconnected power (though not Ethernet) to the hub, the power light went off....and I thought that would do until I could switch over to HA.  But this afternoon the lights came on again.  WTF?!  What could be commanding the relays or what repeating transient could be doing this? 

This is awkward, having everything lumped into one topic, thus my desire to find a better place to ask a pinpointed question and forum topic.

sigh.  Isn't this fun?

Thanks for help, in advance.

This forum doesn't support the Insteon Hub or Home Assistant, I would check with Home Assistant support,  perhaps they also have a forum

 

[chris932]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:27 PM, stillwater said:

I believe you mean Polyglot (which is a software facility for node servers commonly run on a Raspberry PI or on a Polisy (which is a piece of hardware sold by UDI that can run node servers in conjunction with an ISY or now can also run ISY software obviating the need for a hardware ISY). There is a Polyglot V2 but not a Polisy V2.    I suspect you don't have a Polisy.   PGC ran on virtual machines in the cloud until it was shut down for security reasons.  

Yes you are correct is is Polyglot V2. I understand UDI needs to sell things to stay in business but I can't really justify another hardware appliance. Polisy is just an off the shelf PC Engines APU running FreeBSD and UDI's proprietary software (if you dig around you can actually pull the install scripts from their servers)

[lilyoyo1]

9 minutes ago, chris932 said:

Yes you are correct is is Polyglot V2. I understand UDI needs to sell things to stay in business but I can't really justify another hardware appliance. Polisy is just an off the shelf PC Engines APU running FreeBSD and UDI's proprietary software (if you dig around you can actually pull the install scripts from their servers)

Keep in mind, V2 will no longer receive updates so it's only a matter of time before it's node servers stop working

[DaveStLou]

3 hours ago, andrew77 said:

Since Harmony has also discontinued their lines as far as the Harmony hub goes my whole house is quickly becoming obsolete?. Would the Polisy control all my A/V gear as well as the lighting?

There is a Harmony node server available for Polisy. I use it so my programs can control my AV system and TVs. (I have four Hubs). Since the node server controls them locally - on my LAN - without any involvement from Logitech, it really doesn't matter to me if they're no longer developing/supporting it. Works well and is super flexible and fast.

[DaveStLou]

37 minutes ago, chris932 said:

Yes you are correct is is Polyglot V2. I understand UDI needs to sell things to stay in business but I can't really justify another hardware appliance. Polisy is just an off the shelf PC Engines APU running FreeBSD and UDI's proprietary software (if you dig around you can actually pull the install scripts from their servers)

I disagree with your premise that Polisy was created as a hardware revenue source for UDI. Instead, their goal is to provide a stable, supported environment for the node servers to run. It doesn't take much reading on this forum to see many posts from people (including me) who have gotten their Raspberry Pi environment messed up and UDI (and others on this forum) have come to the rescue. Much better for new users to have an stable environment than to have to learn operating systems.

The other goal is to provide the possibility of compensation for the programmers who write and support the node servers. Before PG3, they got no payment for their hard work. Something to consider before pulling install scripts.

Edited April 23, 2022 by DaveStLou

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, DaveStLou said:

I disagree with your premise that Polisy was created as a hardware revenue source for UDI. Instead, their goal is to provide a stable, supported environment for the node servers to run. It doesn't take much reading on this forum to see many posts from people (including me) who have gotten their Raspberry Pi environment messed up and UDI (and others on this forum) have come to the rescue. Much better for new users to have an stable environment than to have to learn operating systems.

The other goal is to provide the possibility of compensation for the programmers who write and support the node servers. Before PG3, they got no payment for their hard work. Something to consider before pulling install scripts.

In addition to what you said, trying to troubleshoot various rpi's costs them time and money for something they had nothing to do with especially when you consider the different versions and differing expertise of users. It's easier to have a common ground with hardware they're highly familiar with to help facilitate all of that 

[chris932]

Don't take it the wrong way, Universal Devices charges a very fair price for their product and provides very good long term support. I wouldn't expect them to just give away the software and also keep the lights on.

[andrew77]

15 hours ago, chris932 said:

Yes you are correct is is Polyglot V2. I understand UDI needs to sell things to stay in business but I can't really justify another hardware appliance. Polisy is just an off the shelf PC Engines APU running FreeBSD and UDI's proprietary software (if you dig around you can actually pull the install scripts from their servers)

Please don't think that I'm being a jerk here. I rarely comment on opinions.

In response to this

you have to make money off your friends. Your enemies go elsewhere.

Between Insteon and Harmony the ISY seems to be the only piece of gear in my house that isnt obsolete right now! hahaha 

I'm glad I run that and not an Insteon hub right now.

 

 

[andrew77]

15 hours ago, DaveStLou said:

There is a Harmony node server available for Polisy. I use it so my programs can control my AV system and TVs. (I have four Hubs). Since the node server controls them locally - on my LAN - without any involvement from Logitech, it really doesn't matter to me if they're no longer developing/supporting it. Works well and is super flexible and fast.

Would I still need the harmony hubs when I get the Polisy? Or will everything be run internally in the new piece of gear?

I realize this is a separate question but will we get notified of the newly sourced PLM?

 

[Athlon]

9 minutes ago, andrew77 said:

Would I still need the harmony hubs when I get the Polisy? Or will everything be run internally in the new piece of gear?

I realize this is a separate question but will we get notified of the newly sourced PLM?

 

1) Depends on what you are trying to control. One thing is for certain - a Polisy can control a Harmony Hub.

2) If it happens - here is where you want to keep your eyes peeled.

 

[andrew77]

22 hours ago, Athlon said:

1) Depends on what you are trying to control. One thing is for certain - a Polisy can control a Harmony Hub.

 

I have a bunch of Apple TVs, projector, Old Plasma tv, receivers, etc. The usual A/V gear.

I have it hooked with IR Receivers/blasters all plugged into two connecting blocks (one for upstairs, one for downstairs).

These two blocks are plugged into the 2.5mm plugs on the back of the Harmony Hub. 

With the ISY and the Harmony skills in Alexa I have everything voice controlled.

If the Harmony hub fails one day would the Polisy replace it? Or would the policy need the hub to control the A/V gear?

 

22 hours ago, Athlon said:

2) If it happens - here is where you want to keep your eyes peeled.

 

I will keep an eye out. I don't have very good luck with PLMs. If it goes I'm assuming I'm screwed?

[Athlon]

6 minutes ago, andrew77 said:

If the Harmony hub fails one day would the Polisy replace it? Or would the policy need the hub to control the A/V gear?

I don't have very good luck with PLMs. If it goes I'm assuming I'm screwed?

1) The Polisy can control some AV gear but not all. See the list of Node Servers here:

https://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/221-polyglot-v3-node-servers-pg3/

I believe there also may be alternatives to your Harmony Hub if it should stop working. I did a quick search on Amazon and found this, for example:

https://smile.amazon.com/BroadLink-RM4-pro-Cable-WiFi-Automation/dp/B0872P4HX7/ref=sr_1_4

Don't know if that's a good one or not - there are more to choose from. The point is your Harmony Hub can most likely be replaced with something if Policy does not have a Node Server for your particular device. Alexa can also control some AV gear, by the way.

2) Most PLMs that stop working can be fixed. There are references to that all over this board. There's a guy on Ebay that fixes them for less than $100.

[gweempose]

My friend texted me last night that his Insteon HUB just suddenly stopped working. A quick Google search led me here. I had tried to get my friend to go the ISY route when he first set everything up, but he didn't want to spend the additional money at the time. Now I'm trying to figure out what his options are going forward. Unfortunately, I have never used an Insteon HUB, so I'm not really familiar with how it is integrated. Here are some questions:

1 - Can the Insteon HUB be controlled locally, or does it require the no longer available cloud servers?

2 - What are his options going forward? If he switches to an ISY, will he need to purchase a PLM, or can he use the built-in PLM in his Insteon HUB? What about if he goes with a Polisy? Are PLMs even still available now that Smarthome is out of business?

3 - Are there any other controllers on the market that will play nicely with his Insteon devices? He doesn't have a very extensive setup. He's just looking for a way to control his existing switches and dimmers from his phone / Amazon Echo.

[MrBill]

12 minutes ago, gweempose said:

My friend texted me last night that his Insteon HUB just suddenly stopped working. A quick Google search led me here. I had tried to get my friend to go the ISY route when he first set everything up, but he didn't want to spend the additional money at the time. Now I'm trying to figure out what his options are going forward. Unfortunately, I have never used an Insteon HUB, so I'm not really familiar with how it is integrated. Here are some questions:

1 - Can the Insteon HUB be controlled locally, or does it require the no longer available cloud servers?

2 - What are his options going forward? If he switches to an ISY, will he need to purchase a PLM, or can he use the built-in PLM in his Insteon HUB? What about if he goes with a Polisy? Are PLMs even still available now that Smarthome is out of business?

3 - Are there any other controllers on the market that will play nicely with his Insteon devices? He doesn't have a very extensive setup. He's just looking for a way to control his existing switches and dimmers from his phone / Amazon Echo.

The hub doesn't have a built in web server or local software produced by insteon.  there are a few open source software pieces that allow access to the hub for what I would call infrequent needs. 

There are also overall home control packages that will use a hub like the ISY uses a PLM.  (The ISY doesn't support the hub, only PLMs).   Home Assistant is the one of those packages that I'm most familiar with.  Home Assistant is open source and does not have a lisc fee,  runs on a Pi (a 4 is recommended but a 3 will work) or many other platofrms. When the Insteon integration is added, the user also supplies the local IP address of the HUB (found via the router) and the usnername and password on the label on the bottom of the hub (not the credentials used for the app).  Home assistant over the next few hours will find on the insteon devices, the process can be sped up by walking around and turning this on and off.   The caveat is that HA doesn't allow you to access schedules that are existing in the hub.  The workaround is to get one of the utilites that access the hub and delete those and then use the HA automation functionality or alternatively factory reset the hub and all devices and re-link manually using a developer tool in HA.

To add Alexa functionality one would need to subscribe to the HA cloud at 6.50 /month or $65/year (annual discount = 2 free months or 16%)

There are many other things that can also interface with Home Assistant if your friend is interested.

[silverton38]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:57 PM, upstatemike said:

Couldn't find the listing you are referencing. Do you have a link?

I am selling my USB PLM and some old switches on eBay. I want to help others on parts that I do not have (it is up for local bid). I have almost 1000 Insteon items so I still have plenty.

[Pacman]

So the noob just got his Polisy Pro and after a little fussing around to get all of the pieces and parts of IoP sorted, I am back in business relatively speaking with Insteon devices and Alexa.  It wasn't too bad other than the $450 to get back basically what I had two weeks ago.

I am liking what I see in the ISY Programs.  They remind me of the old HouseLinc that pre-dated the Insteon Hubs.  We'll see if they work tonight and tomorrow morning.  

[JRubino]

I purchased a 2448A7 USB PLM and a Polisy Pro the day Insteon turned off there servers. I spent this morning and most of the afternoon setting things up. I have about 30 devices and everything, including Alexa integration is up and running. It was a bit of a pain having to do the work that was spread over 8 years of adding devices in a single day, but well worth it. I am pleased with the product and the tools UD provided.

[keepersg]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:42 AM, gweempose said:

My friend texted me last night that his Insteon HUB just suddenly stopped working. A quick Google search led me here. I had tried to get my friend to go the ISY route when he first set everything up, but he didn't want to spend the additional money at the time. Now I'm trying to figure out what his options are going forward. Unfortunately, I have never used an Insteon HUB, so I'm not really familiar with how it is integrated. Here are some questions:

1 - Can the Insteon HUB be controlled locally, or does it require the no longer available cloud servers?

2 - What are his options going forward? If he switches to an ISY, will he need to purchase a PLM, or can he use the built-in PLM in his Insteon HUB? What about if he goes with a Polisy? Are PLMs even still available now that Smarthome is out of business?

3 - Are there any other controllers on the market that will play nicely with his Insteon devices? He doesn't have a very extensive setup. He's just looking for a way to control his existing switches and dimmers from his phone / Amazon Echo.

In addition to HA, there is a HomeSeer plugin that will utilize the Insteon Hub.  There's a lot of activity on that Forum from abandoned Hub users.  HS is not free but is another potential solution with a very robust set of plugins (device drivers) for various automation devices.