ISY994i firmware questions after demise of Insteon

[bigdog]

I have an ISY994i/IR-Pro currently running firmware v4.9.0 using a PLM. I also had an Insteon hub running concurrently to provide an interface for Amazon Echo. I have grown to use my Amazon Echo devices a great deal. I also used the Insteon iPhone app to control things remotely. Like everyone else, my Insteon hub went south on April 15th. 

To resolve my dead Insteon hub issue I subscribed to the ISY Portal and I am back in business. I don't know why I didn't do this sooner, as it is a better solution than the Insteon hub. I have devices the hub didn't support, but the ISY portal does. Thanks UD! 

I have 2 problems left to resolve. I need an app for my phone and I am not going to pay every month to use it. So I downloaded UD Mobile. It says it will not work with my firmware (4.9.0) but that seems to be the last official version available. 

Second problem is what to do in the future? Insteon devices (I have 53 in use) do not last forever. I generally have to replace 3-4 a year. I have replaced my PLM 3x. So I need to prepare for Z-Wave.

I see that firmware v5.3.4 is available but it doesn't look like a smooth upgrade. There seem to be a lot of caveats to upgrading including a recommendation to rebuild the entire programming. I have dozens of programs and over 50 devices. It would take days if not weeks to redo everything from zero. 

It looks like this upgrade is going to be a necessary process if I want to keep using my ISY and have a mobile app, as well as mixing Z-Wave modules in as my Insteon modules fail.

My big question is this. Since I currently only have Insteon modules (with a few X10), will this firmware upgrade cause many problems? What I don't want to do is upgrade, then have to spend hours and days fixing things. I just don't have the time, and have already spent a lot of time this week working around the Insteon hub problem. 

Any advice here would be very much appreciated!

Thanks, Brian

[stillwater]

3-4 Insteon devices failing each year out of 53 seems high, unless perhaps they are very old. Do you have a whole-house surge suppressor at the electric service entrance or main panel?   If not this is a crucial investment to prolong the life of insteon and other electronic devices. 

It's been a long time since I made the jump to 5.x but my memory is that it isn't very difficulprocess if you only have insteon. You will need to check your scenes and the controller scene menus after the upgrade.    A few programs may indeed need to be re-saved and possibly edited.   

The good news is there is no hurry to do the upgrade if everything is working for you now.   You will definitely need to upgrade firmware and Z-wave interface before making use of Zwave --especially  the new and better Zwave products (series 700) which you will want to use exclusively if you move to Zwave..

[I am not a Zwave user and others will  have more info on that.  I believe that there is an intro to Zwave somewhere either in this forum or in the UDI wiki that would be helpful to you --- maybe search for that.]

[kzboray]

I have installed over a thousand Insteon products including switches, dimmers, door sensors, on / off modules, etc in homes all over the bay area since 2005. In that time I've had one switch fail which was my fault (I wired it incorrectly and blew it up). That includes 20 something PLM's without a single failure. The one exception to this is the FanLinc, what a POS. I've had so many fail I've lost count. In the past I simply had Smarthome replace them since they often failed within a year or two.

Now I suppose I'll have to figure out how to repair them. Fingers crossed I haven't had one fail in almost two years, but I do have spares on hand for when one does.

I'm not sure what I'm doing differently than others who have high failure rates, but I've found the Insteon product line to be very reliable. I do make sure the the ISY / Polisy / PLM's I install are in climate controlled conditions. In closed spaces I install active cooling, but otherwise I'm really not sure why people have such high failure rates.

Edited April 20, 2022 by kzboray

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

I need an app for my phone and I am not going to pay every month to use it. So I downloaded UD Mobile. It says it will not work with my firmware (4.9.0) but that seems to be the last official version available. 

UD Mobile is for ISY 5.0.16 and above.  (Currently for ISY994 devices without z-wave I would suggest 5.3.4)

Learn more about UD Mobile in the UD Wiki.

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

Insteon devices (I have 53 in use) do not last forever. I generally have to replace 3-4 a year. I have replaced my PLM 3x. 

I have about as many devices as you do, but they're all 2015 and newer (roughly). Thankfully I haven't had the same fail rate that you're experiencing so perhaps your units are much older or you have power supply issues. Either way, you might want to see if you've got a home electrical problem rather than an Insteon problem just to be sure something isn't frying those devices. You wouldn't want to switch to a different type of device and still have the same fail rate.

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

I see that firmware v5.3.4 is available but it doesn't look like a smooth upgrade.

1 hour ago, bigdog said:

Since I currently only have Insteon modules (with a few X10), will this firmware upgrade cause many problems?

Since you're only Insteon (and few x10) then I'd say your upgrade to 5.3.4 should be mostly smooth. The only major issue going from 4.9 to 5.3.4 is if you have programs that use adjust scene. This is because of the change of how scenes are handled in 5.x.

The key (tip/trick) is to copy all programs to a text editor so you can refer back them after the upgrade and adjust accordingly. Never expect to adjust (or recreate) programs from memory. 

In the program tab of the admin console right click the root "My Programs" folder (of if you changed the name whatever the root folder is). Then select Copy Folder to Clipboard (note...last option in screenshot below). Now, paste that to a text editor (in Windows I suggest Notepad - just something that will NOT auto format any text). Make sure you do not stop at the option to "export to clipboard". That will give you an xml file and be more difficult to read. The text pasted from the "Copy Folder to Clipboard" option is clean and clear to follow for reference.

What you will get in Notepad will start like this: (very easy to read programs this way)

===================================================================================
My Programs - [ID 0001][Parent 0000]

Folder Conditions for 'My Programs'

If
   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')
 
Then
   Allow the programs in this folder to run.
 

Another note to keep up with...make note of any disabled programs you might have. When I upgrade from 4.9 to 5.3.x all my disabled programs became enabled and I had to turn them off again. Some around here will mark disabled programs by name or put them in a folder called disabled.  Disabled programs will show up in your text file with [Not Enabled] clearly shown.

Now is also a good time to go through and possibly rename programs so that ones that run processes in the same room or rely on other programs might be close together in the name list for ease of reference.

It's been almost a year since I upgraded, but still remember that it took me less than an hour to make the upgrade and confirm/adjust programs. Then, over the following weekend if I noticed programs not doing what I expected just spent a little time fixing those up. There weren't many, but there were a few minor tweaks to make.

 

Once up and running with 5.3.4 then you can begin using UD Mobile. It's really becoming a great addition to the ISY world and becoming quite powerful with options. 

Final tip - BACKUP! BACKUP! BACKUP! Make sure you backup your current setup before you attempt the upgrade. Since it's a manual upgrade that's a step in the process, but it's good to run one before attempting the manual upgrade too.

Then, when you get to step 7 in the process just do the first part:

Quote

7.  Launch the 5.3.0 Admin Console and/or Dashboard by going to the following link:

  -  https://isy.universal-devices.com/start.jnlp

This will download/add the ISY Launcher process for accessing Admin Console. (If you're on Windows this is a simple process...on Mac it's a mixed bag) Run the "start.jnlp" once and it will install the ISY Launcher icon to your desktop. Now, always use this to access the admin console. This will usually open the "ISY Finder" window and should automatically list the local ISY (as long as it is found on the local network). 

 

If after you go through the upgrade process and have issues jump back here and let us know what issues you're having and somebody might be able to help. Otherwise, open a support ticket with Universal Devices (https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/) for individual support for your issue.

Good luck! 

[sjenkins]

knock wood but personally never had a failure.  I am a factor of ten less then @kzboraybut have about 150 devices over a period of 7 years.

[bigdog]

Thanks! All this is great advice. I spent about an hour organizing and backing up and started the update process.

I'm using a Mac and got this message. Not off to a great start

 

 

[stillwater]

By default a Mac will often unzip the firmware file you downloaded.  You want to upload the stil-zipped file to the ISY994.  

Can't guarantee that this is your situation but that's often the problem.  

[bigdog]

I got the update installed using Windows. However, it upgraded the firmware but apparently not the UI.

Is there a way to upgrade the UI?

 

[MrBill]

2 minutes ago, bigdog said:

I got the update installed using Windows. However, it upgraded the firmware but apparently not the UI.

Is there a way to upgrade the UI?

On a mac your best approach is to clear the java cache, and delete any files you have named admin.jnlp or start.jnlp and then save the admin console file from your ISY... http://<IP address of ISY>/admin.jnlp

There's also the launcher, but you'll have better luck with the above.  From windows the better solution is the ISY Launcher.

[bigdog]

Ah, never mind. Seems I have it running okay.

Note to Mac users, if at all possible try to do the update using Windows. I have Win 7, 10, and 11 installed under Parallels and used Win 7 because it has a full Java stack installed. Went fine. I did a full Java update under Mac OS Big Sur, and everything is now as it should be. Many, but not all programs that were previously disabled needed to be re-disabled. Follow Geddy's instructions and you'll be golden!

Thank you Geddy, your instructions were excellent. I'm all updated and ordered my Z-Wave board today. I have a couple of Insteon dimmer switches as spares and am going to add some new Z-Wave devices when I get the board.

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, kzboray said:

I have installed over a thousand Insteon products including switches, dimmers, door sensors, on / off modules, etc in homes all over the bay area since 2005. In that time I've had one switch fail which was my fault (I wired it incorrectly and blew it up). That includes 20 something PLM's without a single failure. The one exception to this is the FanLinc, what a POS. I've had so many fail I've lost count. In the past I simply had Smarthome replace them since they often failed within a year or two.

Now I suppose I'll have to figure out how to repair them. Fingers crossed I haven't had one fail in almost two years, but I do have spares on hand for when one does.

I'm not sure what I'm doing differently than others who have high failure rates, but I've found the Insteon product line to be very reliable. I do make sure the the ISY / Polisy / PLM's I install are in climate controlled conditions. In closed spaces I install active cooling, but otherwise I'm really not sure why people have such high failure rates.

My experience is the same as yours. Though i upgrade stuff often, I'm typically pulling old stuff out and putting it in friends and family homes and they're still going without issue. The only thing I'd say I do different than many others is install a whole home surge protector. My house also has one at the meter. 

I stopped using the fanlinc some time ago and switched over to an off/switch. Most clients were installing DC fans (wife swapped our out too) and rarely changed fan speeds anyway. 

[Geddy]

17 hours ago, bigdog said:

Note to Mac users, if at all possible try to do the update using Windows. I have Win 7, 10, and 11 installed under Parallels and used Win 7 because it has a full Java stack installed. Went fine.

@bigdog Glad you're up and running on 5.3.4! Great tip to use Windows if possible. I know it's been hit and miss on MAC systems using the ISY Launcher process. You're lucky to be able to use a Win install to get things going for you. 

Good luck going forward! If you run into any new issues be sure to post (hopefully new threads to get specific support for any issues you run into).